Pro-life or Pro-choice

[Stella-Io]

I'm a bit iffy, I belive that a woman, if she can not take care of the baby emotionally, phyically & financially should probably consider abortion, because adoption and foster homes are just terrible places. However, I think the woman should STRONGLY see if she can give the baby to a family or person who can provide for the baby. Like adoption, but instant and a whole lot better. However this would probably take alot of time, possibly too much time. I'm also not sure if this can be proven, but if it CAN be proven that a woman got pregnant because of rape, she 100% no question no ifs ands or buts should have the right to abort. Even if she is perfectly healthy, she should still have that right. I guess it would have to be proven with some kind of DNA test but the justice system is slow, so even this would take far too long.

I don't like the idea that a woman would abort a third trimester baby. And when I say this, I mean that there's nothing wrong with her or the baby. But life isn't perfect, maybe she lost everythin and has no way to financially provide for the child, or she suddenly got deathly ill.

I guess you can say I'm pro-choice, but life sure does make that choice hard, especially when it's not just you, it's a baby that can't even blow its nose for itself.

 

[Buttonsy]

Firmly pro-choice. Body autonomy is one of the most important human rights, so telling someone "actually, you can't do what you want with your body in this circumstance" is disgusting to me.

 

[Alienfish]

Firmly pro-choice. Body autonomy is one of the most important human rights, so telling someone "actually, you can't do what you want with your body in this circumstance" is disgusting to me.

Yes, thank you. How people cannot consider this something to be a human right is beyond my mind also.

Regarding late abortions, I have fully understanding if it's a severe disease or a condition that is discovered late. Do you want your kid to suffer and do you as parents(s) want to take all that responsibility to take care of it including dealing with all sorts of authorities and fight basically all your awake time and do nothing else with your life? I just say I don't blame people, regardless of how morally right or wrong it might be.

 

[Runaburezu]

There are literal sites for this exact type of discussion, some even for this very exact topic
I really don't get what drives people to bring controversial politics into places like this, I guess an obsession with their side wanting to "win" and wanting to "expand their territory" to influence more people
I've seen this from both sides and it leaves me absolutely fuming

 

[UglyMonsterFace]

I am pro-choice. However, I am against the way that some women use abortion as a "contraceptive" meaning they have unprotected sex knowing that abortion is always an option. They take absolutely no steps to have safe sex. I think this is immoral. I also don't agree with abortion during late pregnancy. Besides this, I am pro choice.

 

[MasterM64]

There are literal sites for this exact type of discussion, some even for this very exact topic
I really don't get what drives people to bring controversial politics into places like this, I guess an obsession with their side wanting to "win" and wanting to "expand their territory" to influence more people
I've seen this from both sides and it leaves me absolutely fuming

I honestly think it is really good that people post topics like this because it helps people explore & build their worldviews in a constructive manner (as long as people remain civil), exercises people's freedom of speech, builds civility in the TBT community when the topics are civilly discussed, and it also enriches the overall content that TBT has to offer overall which makes the community appealing to more potential members!

 

[honeyaura]

I am pro-choice. However, I am against the way that some women use abortion as a "contraceptive" meaning they have unprotected sex knowing that abortion is always an option. They take absolutely no steps to have safe sex. I think this is immoral. I also don't agree with abortion during late pregnancy. Besides this, I am pro choice.

I second this.

 

[RedTropicalPeachyFish]

What, from who's view are we supposed to see this? Yourself undesiredly being pregnant (as female)? Or yourself having made your gf's get holy glow(as male)? Or, just as third party when you see whoever is getting this issue that comes from pregnancy??? If it's the first case, you can do whatever you chose for yourself. If you're bf of your gf who has your babby in the tummy, you two just need to discuss in depth. And, if you're the third party, it's none of your business.

What's the point of talking about things like this, like someone said earlier.

EDIT :

Spoiler: wait, I realize better way to make it shorter - "silly"

I honestly think it is really good that people post topics like this because it helps people explore & build their worldviews in a constructive manner (as long as people remain civil), exercises people's freedom of speech, builds civility in the TBT community when the topics are civilly discussed, and it also enriches the overall content that TBT has to offer overall which makes the community appealing to more potential members!

Sorry Jared, but I barely have seen a discussion that's constructive lately. It's usually just people talking about their opinion one-sidedly, it's not the discussion, as whenever someone says something that throws a question to someone else's opinion, they don't try discuss/they rarely answer. That's how it usually goes here.
It's not not understandable. This site is kinda different from a lot of other gaming sites. Each members are not anon here, which is good - it's making TBT as community. But, so, good chunk of members are sorta concerned/scared of conflicting with other members, and they shut their mouth, unless they see it's no harm to themselves, like bandwagonning.
In this state, immature people taking about topic like this doesn't look having big point to me tbh. The only point I see is, so you can get to know how their personality is like by reading it. Correct me if I'm wrong, ahaha.

 

[MasterM64]

Sorry Jared, but I barely have seen a discussion that's constructive lately. It's usually just people talking about their opinion one-sidedly, it's not the discussion, as whenever someone says something that throws a question to someone else's opinion, they don't try discuss/they rarely answer. That's how it usually goes here.
It's not not understandable. This site is kinda different from a lot of other gaming sites. Each members are not anon here, which is good - it's making TBT as community. But, so, good chunk of members are sorta concerned/scared of conflicting with other members, and they shut their mouth, unless they see it's no harm to themselves, like bandwagonning.
In this state, immature people taking about topic like this doesn't look having big point to me tbh. The only point I see is, so you can get to know how their personality is like by reading it. Correct me if I'm wrong, ahaha.

That definitely is true, but people could still constructively develop or shift a worldview just by reading what others think and logically thinking through it for themselves (that is what I meant in my post, but I can see why you read it the way you did which is all good my dear friend!). Even though we are all technically anonymous at the end of the day here (since people can always lie about their names, etc.), I definitely agree that TBT is different than many other gaming communities out there in numerous ways positively in regards to how everyone interacts amongst themselves. I definitely can see where you are coming from there about people being careful, I think it is good that is the case though since it is always good to think before you express! That is also quite true, you can learn a lot about anyone just by how they post along with the actual logic/content of the post!

 

[RedTropicalPeachyFish]

That definitely is true, but people could still constructively develop or shift a worldview just by reading what others think and logically thinking through it for themselves (that is what I meant in my post, but I can see why you read it the way you did which is all good my dear friend!). Even though we are all technically anonymous at the end of the day here (since people can always lie about their names, etc.), I definitely agree that TBT is different than many other gaming communities out there in numerous ways positively in regards to how everyone interacts amongst themselves. I definitely can see where you are coming from there about people being careful, I think it is good that is the case though since it is always good to think before you express! That is also quite true, you can learn a lot about anyone just by how they post along with the actual logic/content of the post!

I like how you're positive & responsive, Jared, even if our opinions are not the same.

When it's sensitive topic, not like about coffee or about what you're thankful for, "it's okay to say anything you believe and just let it go as you said" doesn't look right, it could hurt someone. If you're still gonna bring up the topic like that, it should take the form that involves interaction/discussion, with real open mind. That's what I believe.

Spoiler: personal experience that's the backgrounding my thought

I've been taking care of one girl since I was like seventeen. She was the abandoned baby, who my bf at the time made and her mother was not the personality who could take care of a child. Now she had been finally got permission to be my daughter years back, after me being with her for over a decade. She is doing good, doing okay and happy.

Someone is saying in this thread, that "I belive that a woman, if she can not take care of the baby emotionally, phyically & financially should probably consider abortion, because adoption and foster homes are just terrible places". So... according to the opinion, my girl should've gotten abortion while she was in her mother's tummy? Because her mother was incapable?
Life is very precious, and not such a casual something that you can say "It should" or "should not" or what not about, though you're just an third party. I was NOT very appropriate person to take care of a 2 years old baby either, I was not like how I am today - but it changed me. By being put through and trying in there, we can change.

So.. talking about these things casually doesn't look very thoughtful or faithful in my eyes.

 

[duckykate]

I personally would never have an abortion but i also don't have the right to tell other women what to do with their bodies.

- - - Post Merge - - -

it's absolutely none of my business if someone has an abortion and it's certainly not a man who's never had to deal with childbirth's business.

 

[LadyDestani]

I like how you're positive & responsive, Jared, even if our opinions are not the same.

When it's sensitive topic, not like about coffee or about what you're thankful for, "it's okay to say anything you believe and just let it go as you said" doesn't look right, it could hurt someone. If you're still gonna bring up the topic like that, it should take the form that involves interaction/discussion, with real open mind. That's what I believe.

Spoiler: personal experience that's the backgrounding my thought

I've been taking care of one girl since I was like seventeen. She was the abandoned baby, who my bf at the time made and her mother was not the personality who could take care of a child. Now she had been finally got permission to be my daughter years back, after me being with her for over a decade. She is doing good, doing okay and happy.

Someone is saying in this thread, that "I belive that a woman, if she can not take care of the baby emotionally, phyically & financially should probably consider abortion, because adoption and foster homes are just terrible places". So... according to the opinion, my girl should've gotten abortion while she was in her mother's tummy? Because her mother was incapable?
Life is very precious, and not such a casual something that you can say "It should" or "should not" or what not about, though you're just an third party. I was NOT very appropriate person to take care of a 2 years old baby either, I was not like how I am today - but it changed me. By being put through and trying in there, we can change.

So.. talking about these things casually doesn't look very thoughtful or faithful in my eyes.

I certainly hope it wasn't my post that made you feel like I was saying your little girl should have been aborted. If so that was not the way I intended it to come across and apologize. I think it's wonderful that you took this baby in and you are an amazing person for doing it.

I don't feel that any child 'should' be aborted, just that the option should be there for pregnant women who feel it is their only or best option. There are a lot of different circumstances and it is unfortunate, but there are more unwanted babies than there are people like yourself willing or able to care for them.

In the end, I believe that it's up to each woman, or couple if the man is still involved in her life, to come to their own desicion. It's really none of my business or anyone else's, including the government's.

I think I agree with what someone else brought up, that there are really two questions here:

- Does a woman have the right to make decisions about her own body? That is a resounding yes for me.

- At what point does the unborn baby gain the same rights as everyone else? For me, this question becomes trickier because I view the baby as a living creature as soon as it is conceived. I care about it the same way I would any other living thing. However, I also believe that until it has formed the vital organs and internal processes necessary to keep it alive and functioning outside of the womb, the woman's rights over her own body precede that of the undeveloped fetus.

I wish there were no need for abortions, but I would also never take that right away from a woman. I hope that makes sense. I would never intentionally trivialize anyone's life and I would hope that anyone getting an abortion would take the matter seriously and look into as many options as possible before making their decision. But in the end, it's their decision and not mine.

 

[Stella-Io]

I like how you're positive & responsive, Jared, even if our opinions are not the same.

When it's sensitive topic, not like about coffee or about what you're thankful for, "it's okay to say anything you believe and just let it go as you said" doesn't look right, it could hurt someone. If you're still gonna bring up the topic like that, it should take the form that involves interaction/discussion, with real open mind. That's what I believe.

Spoiler: personal experience that's the backgrounding my thought

I've been taking care of one girl since I was like seventeen. She was the abandoned baby, who my bf at the time made and her mother was not the personality who could take care of a child. Now she had been finally got permission to be my daughter years back, after me being with her for over a decade. She is doing good, doing okay and happy.

Someone is saying in this thread, that "I belive that a woman, if she can not take care of the baby emotionally, phyically & financially should probably consider abortion, because adoption and foster homes are just terrible places". So... according to the opinion, my girl should've gotten abortion while she was in her mother's tummy? Because her mother was incapable?
Life is very precious, and not such a casual something that you can say "It should" or "should not" or what not about, though you're just an third party. I was NOT very appropriate person to take care of a 2 years old baby either, I was not like how I am today - but it changed me. By being put through and trying in there, we can change.

So.. talking about these things casually doesn't look very thoughtful or faithful in my eyes.

No that was my post Lady Destani.

But yeah I can see how my thoughts are insensitive RedTropicalPeachyFish. I also don't know the whole story, as in how you came across the girl, whether the mother was looking for a person to take care of the baby, or an outside party, like maybe the government, or you just coming across the woman on day. Each persons situation is different, which makes choices like this such a challenge; it's not just your life it's another person's life who has no say in whether or not they live.

I do try to be open minded, which is why I'm 'iffy' on the situation. But you're right, I haven't considered other people's stories, especially yours that you shared.

Gonna have to rewrite my statement on that post.

 

[RedTropicalPeachyFish]

@LadyDestani, @Stella-Io

First off, I appreciate you taking time for replying. I'm not offended also by any means.

Spoiler:

I brought up my personal experience as an instance. Like Stella said, each persons situation is different. But in either case, it could involve a quite sensitive subject, that usually affects the person in the situation emotionally/physically. Which is why I believe it shouldn't be brought up casually, but should be discussed with open mind and interactions if it's gonna be brought up. I really appreciate your replies.

- Does a woman have the right to make decisions about her own body?

My honest thought about it is, not much point of thinking about these things. Whether if we see they have the right or they don't, they get pregnant. And once they do, they need to either give birth or do abortion. What I see important is not the question if they have the right or no but it's how we can support. What we can do to help them be doing better, healthy and okay, regardless of their choices.

> but there are more unwanted babies than there are people like yourself willing or able to care for them.

Someone who I had been with for like half a decade was Mexican and he had a big family. No exaggeration here, there were always a lot of children running around in his house, making a fuss all the time. He was usually taking care of 6 to 8 babies/toddlers at a time when no classes. (Actually it was a huge mess everyday! haha) Some of the kids were from foster care, and some were babies of his cousin, who was like 16 years old at the time and had 6 babies already. I'm not gonna lie here, I was pretty dumbfounded about her lifestyle tbh. But, while being with him, I was impressed how no one in the family accuses her pregnancy, and would naturally accept the new babies. I thought, at the time, that it's like cat's or dog's adoption. Like "who's gonna take in which child?" But, those children looked doing fine. I don't miss this ex at all, but I do miss seeing those kids, very much. They were children who would've been aborted if she didn't have support.

I, myself, was an "unwanted baby". I had been told by my mother throughout the childhood, that I should've died, that she would've been able to get divorced with my father if she didn't get pregnant of me. I was like I'm sorry mom, for making your life be harder for me, I'd do anything to help your life go better, but mom, but I'm happy, that I'm here, that I'm alive.
"Unwanted babies" that no one desires? that there's no one who's willing to take care of? I wasn't taken care of, but I'm here however. I still appreciate them to this day, for giving me life.
I'm not saying I'm against abortion. I mean, if they choose to give birth despite their incapability, they can. And the baby who's born can live their life, even if no one is desiring their birth. And, if they choose abortion, what we're supposed to think about is not if it's right or wrong. It is how we or government can provide safer means and support to do that, so for them no need to do it at illegal place or to do it by wrong method, and to be able to be doing healthy and okay.

As for this question and opinion,

- At what point does the unborn baby gain the same rights as everyone else?
> I would hope that anyone getting an abortion would take the matter seriously

I view they're living creature as soon as they're conceived. But that doesn't mean anything special. There are a lot of death and a lot of life, that's just natural and how the world is running. Like, it comes and goes, yes. If the person is getting an abortion, I don't think I want her to take it unnecessarily seriously. I don't want her to feel heavy and guilty, when I think of their wellness in the future. She just had to abort it. Then, the less burden the better.
Overall, what's important is not, right or wrong, but it's them doing healthy and okay, that's where my belief is in.

Lastly, so... see? When we're gonna discuss these things appropriately, it would take goddamn long! It shouldn't be the topic on gaming site!
Thank any of you guys to read this all, if you did.

 

[LadyDestani]

@LadyDestani, @Stella-Io

First off, I appreciate you taking time for replying. I'm not offended also by any means.

Spoiler:

I brought up my personal experience as an instance. Like Stella said, each persons situation is different. But in either case, it could involve a quite sensitive subject, that usually affects the person in the situation emotionally/physically. Which is why I believe it shouldn't be brought up casually, but should be discussed with open mind and interactions if it's gonna be brought up. I really appreciate your replies.

- Does a woman have the right to make decisions about her own body?

My honest thought about it is, not much point of thinking about these things. Whether if we see they have the right or they don't, they get pregnant. And once they do, they need to either give birth or do abortion. What I see important is not the question if they have the right or no but it's how we can support. What we can do to help them be doing better, healthy and okay, regardless of their choices.

> but there are more unwanted babies than there are people like yourself willing or able to care for them.

Someone who I had been with for like half a decade was Mexican and he had a big family. No exaggeration here, there were always a lot of children running around in his house, making a fuss all the time. He was usually taking care of 6 to 8 babies/toddlers at a time when no classes. (Actually it was a huge mess everyday! haha) Some of the kids were from foster care, and some were babies of his cousin, who was like 16 years old at the time and had 6 babies already. I'm not gonna lie here, I was pretty dumbfounded about her lifestyle tbh. But, while being with him, I was impressed how no one in the family accuses her pregnancy, and would naturally accept the new babies. I thought, at the time, that it's like cat's or dog's adoption. Like "who's gonna take in which child?" But, those children looked doing fine. I don't miss this ex at all, but I do miss seeing those kids, very much. They were children who would've been aborted if she didn't have support.

I, myself, was an "unwanted baby". I had been told by my mother throughout the childhood, that I should've died, that she would've been able to get divorced with my father if she didn't get pregnant of me. I was like I'm sorry mom, for making your life be harder for me, I'd do anything to help your life go better, but mom, but I'm happy, that I'm here, that I'm alive.
"Unwanted babies" that no one desires? that there's no one who's willing to take care of? I wasn't taken care of, but I'm here however. I still appreciate them to this day, for giving me life.
I'm not saying I'm against abortion. I mean, if they choose to give birth despite their incapability, they can. And the baby who's born can live their life, even if no one is desiring their birth. And, if they choose abortion, what we're supposed to think about is not if it's right or wrong. It is how we or government can provide safer means and support to do that, so for them no need to do it at illegal place or to do it by wrong method, and to be able to be doing healthy and okay.

As for this question and opinion,

- At what point does the unborn baby gain the same rights as everyone else?
> I would hope that anyone getting an abortion would take the matter seriously

I view they're living creature as soon as they're conceived. But that doesn't mean anything special. There are a lot of death and a lot of life, that's just natural and how the world is running. Like, it comes and goes, yes. If the person is getting an abortion, I don't think I want her to take it unnecessarily seriously. I don't want her to feel heavy and guilty, when I think of their wellness in the future. She just had to abort it. Then, the less burden the better.
Overall, what's important is not, right or wrong, but it's them doing healthy and okay, that's where my belief is in.

Lastly, so... see? When we're gonna discuss these things appropriately, it would take goddamn long! It shouldn't be the topic on gaming site!
Thank any of you guys to read this all, if you did. ��

Thank you for sharing your own experiences so openly. I think we agree on the main points, but as you said, it's a lot to cover in a single forum post so we only get snippets of everyone's thoughts. But what you've shared is something I'll keep in mind and try to be more sensitive to in the future if I speak about this topic. I learn a lot by talking to others and hearing their perspective, and it can alter the way I look at things even though it doesn't change my core beliefs. And I also definitely agree with your point about there needing to be plenty of support for women regardless of their choice to help them do things the right way, whether that means raising a child, potentially on their own, or aborting.

 

[tybalt_cake]

pro-choice

 

[Soigne]

I am pro-choice & that's all I have to say.

 

[SublimeDonut]

There are more serious problems than clumps of cells tha barely feel anything being prevented from developing.

 

[Marte]

I'm pro-choice, not sure what else to add to my response.

 

[Ditz]

Pro-choice. If it's not your body, you have no reason to try and control someones choice.