Mafia TBT Mafia XV: The Siren's Call (Game Over/Mafia & Third Party Win!)

[Minties]

Actually, it says in my role PM that I count towards town's numbers. I'm pretty sure we're technically town.

@Karla
Yeah it wasn't Natty. This was the post I had in mind when typing that. It was actually Trundle. He was the only one to say they count towards town numbers.

 

[KarlaKGB]

@Karla
Yeah it wasn't Natty. This was the post I had in mind when typing that. It was actually Trundle. He was the only one to say they count towards town numbers.

Yeah this is pretty typical of third party roles. They are still not aligned with town (because they don't need to win with town), but yes they count as town for the purposes of mafia win condition (which is generally to control at least half the voting power)

 

[Cory]

Getting late where I am, so I'll just keep this very brief for the moment.

I think it would be incredibly gutsy for 3 mafia to claim thieves. I mean it seems pretty smart in theory considering no one touched the squid after they knew squid was a 3rd party with a separate win con. It may be advantageous to kill off one of the supposed thieves to determine if the other two are lying as well. Honestly, I'd leave that up to the vig to decide. I just don't want to question the thieves' alignment all the way up until it's too late and mafia wins. If the claims are true, we're still looking at 5 mafia + 3 thieves + 11 town. Natty said her role PM stated that the thieves were aligned with us, Cory and Trundle - did yours as well? I'm undecided on if their claims can be fully trusted or not.

Also +1 at Tom's frustration. I feel you brother.

Until tomorrow.

Yes mine did as well

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Really sorry to hear that and hope you will reconsider. I agree with what you're saying, though - Activity is still an issue and some people just keep signing up to play in game after game without really posting or contributing much. It is tiresome. But I really hope that there's ways we could improve on that rather than seeing our best and oldest Mafia players quit due to frustration.

Now, regarding the three thieves, I've been feeling a little bit uncertain of them all along. I'm going to explain why:

The timing of the claims? Natty was starting to get pressured by people, and a vote or two had been cast on her for the lynch. That's when she decides to roleclaim. This makes sense both if she's Mafia and if she's the role she claims to be, because obviously she doesn't want to die. However, she doesn't instantly explain how her role works, and it really felt like SP was the one that put the idea of "stealing treasures" into her head in my opinion. I commented on that before.

It takes many many hours before all the details of how the role works are on the table. But once they are, it adds up. People are no longer suspicious of Natty much at all. Most of us doesn't even seem to strongly consider that this Thief role could be a safe-claim of some kind given to her by Tina. Now, some time passes and attention switches over to Cory, and only then - After seeing how well it worked for Natty - He claims to be the same role. And AGAIN it removes almost all suspicions off of him. After seeing how well this works, Trundle is fairly confident in claiming the same role himself, and explain that this is why he has been acting odd which many of us have been picking up on.

Play-To-Win? If the Thieves work exactly like we have been told, and there's nothing sinister or evil about them, why the hell would both Natty and Cory - WITHOUT BEING PRESSURED - Tell us who they stole diamonds from? This is pure foolishness if the goal is for them to get more diamonds than the other people. Why would you tell your competition whom you've visited, and who no longer has treasure in their pockets? That just means that your competitors won't waste a night visiting the same target! If they were telling the truth, both about their roles and who they visited, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. It makes zero sense to me.

Who's side are they really on? As Karla said, even if they ARE telling the truth, I don't see any reason why they would choose to help town in a critical situation towards the later parts of the game. They might just as well side with Mafia and end the game earlier, which would benefit them. Very dangerous. Despite this, they're just floating by. And note how Cory seems incredibly upset with the idea of one of the three getting shot. Why is that? Yes, even if they were telling the truth all along, they have a 33% chance to die, but a 66% chance of getting ahead in the game by losing a competitor. Despite this, he appears super defensive about it. That worries me additionally. It implies that he's not thrilled about the idea of his opponents getting removed from the game, which would be the number one thing furthering him towards his win condition.

Thiefs can't steal from other thiefs

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Another thing, all three of us have been lying to you all, since Superpenguin did the competition between certain players last game, Tina have made the three thieves, Me, Natty and Trundle work together to obtain seven diamonds instead of competing to get the most diamonds. We thought that lying and saying that we were competing would make people believe our claims more since it happened last game. But Satartic brought up good points and I can't hide the fact that the three thieves are working together. We did not lie about our rolenames and abilities. If you still don't believe us. Then shoot me as I am the weakest out of the three and I am sure Natty and Trundle would help you guys out more than I would.

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And the reason I randomly claimed was because if I didn't claim you guys were gonna think that natty was a serial killer.

 

[EpicGamer12]

Welp, it's out and it's true. That's why I was pretending I didn't care if you shot Cory, but honestly, he's part of my team. We've found 3 diamonds of the 7 so far and we found out it's completely random and there is no order to who has diamonds.

 

[KarlaKGB]

Another thing, all three of us have been lying to you all, since Superpenguin did the competition between certain players last game, Tina have made the three thieves, Me, Natty and Trundle work together to obtain seven diamonds instead of competing to get the most diamonds. We thought that lying and saying that we were competing would make people believe our claims more since it happened last game. But Satartic brought up good points and I can't hide the fact that the three thieves are working together. We did not lie about our rolenames and abilities. If you still don't believe us. Then shoot me as I am the weakest out of the three and I am sure Natty and Trundle would help you guys out more than I would.

What even is the point of having you in the game? The design literally makes no sense. Is your only "gamesmanship" the fact that you have to find all the diamonds before the game ends? That's it? What is the point of a faction that is not in competition with the two main factions?

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Do you have your own quicktopic and have you known about each other since the beginning?

 

[EpicGamer12]

What even is the point of having you in the game? The design literally makes no sense. Is your only "gamesmanship" the fact that you have to find all the diamonds before the game ends? That's it? What is the point of a faction that is not in competition with the two main factions?

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Do you have your own quicktopic and have you known about each other since the beginning?

Yes, we have our own Quicktopic. Each day we discuss to each other who we find suspicious and once night starts we continue going down through the playerlist, stealing from people. There really isn't much of a competition, only to get them all before the game ends. I feel like it's possible that there are other roles than know something about diamonds though, but who knows.

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We were actually going to out ourselves as a team write as Day 2 lynch ended but then you posted your thing about shooting us and we thought it would just make us look more scummy.

 

[Pathetic]

Yes, we have our own Quicktopic. Each day we discuss to each other who we find suspicious and once night starts we continue going down through the playerlist, stealing from people. There really isn't much of a competition, only to get them all before the game ends. I feel like it's possible that there are other roles than know something about diamonds though, but who knows.

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We were actually going to out ourselves as a team write as Day 2 lynch ended but then you posted your thing about shooting us and we thought it would just make us look more scummy.

wow. I'm competing against you? :<

I wonder who the third thief is

if there is a third...

what

 

[KarlaKGB]

what

That's when they were pretending to be working alone and against each other, please read everything.

 

[Pathetic]

That's when they were pretending to be working alone and against each other, please read everything.

why pretend?? ok

 

[Trent the Paladin]

I guess it's vigs call at this point on whether or not to shoot them, kinda wary about this whole thieves game but whatever it kind of matches the theme. If you don't plan on shooting the thieves, perhaps take a chance with a strong player? Someone you deem unlynchable.

 

[Jeremy]

I would suggest the vig doesn't waste their shot on a thief.

 

[Jeremy]

Although now I see the development of them working together. So was Natty lying at first? What's the point of them then? Who are they working against?

 

[EpicGamer12]

Either way, guys, if they do or not, we given all we can at this point and we should move on. It's just distracting town.

 

[KarlaKGB]

Although now I see the development of them working together. So was Natty lying at first? What's the point of them then? Who are they working against?

They work against nobody. They are under no threat from each other or town/scum. They have no point in this game. Either they're full of ****, or it's bad design.

 

[Jeremy]

They work against nobody. They are under no threat from each other or town/scum. They have no point in this game. Either they're full of ****, or it's bad design.

I agree with this, but I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being so we don't spend kills on them until we have to. At least if they are the mafia team, we are (in theory) safe waiting a bit since we only need one to find out who most or all of the team is. If they are mafia, I imagine it went down something like this: Natty decided to make the claim, but it was flawed. So then the other two scummates claimed to save her from looking suspicious. We'd have to believe that Natty was capable of making a mistake like that and dragging two scummates down with her, but I find that hard to believe.

 

[KermitTea]

I see a bit of a problem with the design too. What if someone holding a diamond died already? Then you guys will never fulfill your win condition unless the point is to steal before they die.

 

[Cory]

I see a bit of a problem with the design too. What if someone holding a diamond died already? Then you guys will never fulfill your win condition unless the point is to steal before they die.

Once you get a diamond you can't lose it.

- - - Post Merge - - -

But idk if the team gets the diamond if you die the same night.

 

[KarlaKGB]

Once you get a diamond you can't lose it.

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But idk if the team gets the diamond if you die the same night.

No, what happens if X is holding a diamond, and then they die before you have a chance to steal it off him?

What is your actual win condition?

You guys can have a few mins to discuss amongst yourselves

 

[Cory]

No, what happens if X is holding a diamond, and then they die before you have a chance to steal it off him?

What is your actual win condition?

You guys can have a few mins to discuss amongst yourselves

You are able to retrive diamonds from dead people. Our win condition is to collect all of the diamonds (there are 7)

 

[KarlaKGB]

What happens when you collect all the diamonds? Do you leave the game?