Mafia TBT Mini Mafia IV: Fire Emblem Kingmaker - Official Game OVER

[Farobi]

Looking at the player list, I understand why I'm the lynch candidate for today. Unfortunately, I can't make a defense for a non-existent case, but I'll try to be helpful unlike my stint in Weeaboo Mafia VI: Super Kawaii Desu ONII CHAN STOLE MY PANTSU WHILE SENPAI NOTICED ME. Expect a lot of questioning rather than long posts from me, I do my own analysis every now and then, and I especially need those answers.

I think the Kingmaker did well by choosing Ashtot. Strong Mafia players do tend to evade suspicions early in the game, and Ashtot is more prone to slip up if he is Mafia. If we choose a strong Mafia player for a King-for-the-Day, it could cause us to be influenced by his/her case against a Town player. That's bad!!!

If the Kingmaker chose Ashtot for different intentions, then I dont even know.

Ashtot and Kuma are much more involved in mafia games through other means of conversation which is why I think they are better to keep around than Farobi.

What are these "other means"? If you mean PMs, then I'll gladly follow through a conversation if I see the need to. Saying this may cause the Mafia to infiltrate, so I'll be a bit secretive until I'm sure that you're town-aligned :]

 

[EpicGamer12]

What are these "other means"? If you mean PMs, then I'll gladly follow through a conversation if I see the need to. Saying this may cause the Mafia to infiltrate, so I'll be a bit secretive until I'm sure that you're town-aligned :]

Ashtot is usually active very active in the IRC. While Kuma may be in the IRC, she is usually not saying anything, and does not talk about mafia. This, I believe, still allows Kuma to hide out as a role such as godfather, where she can't lose due to inspections. As Kayla said, she often passes by.
Another player who seemed to pass by last game was PurplPanda. Honestly, by biggest reason for a lynch for PurplPanda would be because he's off in his own world crying right now about losing Stitches in his ACNL town. I'm not sure if this will end, but PurplPanda doesn't usually post very much good anyways.

I'd say either lynch Kuma, PurplPanda, or Horus. Horus is obviously going to end up being the biggest "distraction" this game, which is exactly what we don't want as town. As we've already seen, Horus wants to lynch people based off their favorite pony.

 

[Superpenguin]

If we choose a strong Mafia player for a King-for-the-Day, it could cause us to be influenced by his/her case against a Town player. That's bad!!!

If the Kingmaker chose Ashtot for different intentions, then I dont even know.

I'm sure the Kingmaker chose Ashtot for the reasons Gandalf stated earlier. Ashtot wasn't really being serious once again, thus attracting attention to himself. He's also not the kind of person to stray away from the group and go ahead and lynch someone just because he alone is suspicious of them.

What are these "other means"? If you mean PMs, then I'll gladly follow through a conversation if I see the need to. Saying this may cause the Mafia to infiltrate, so I'll be a bit secretive until I'm sure that you're town-aligned :]

Basically anything not in the thread. I just remember in MM3, I was PM'ing you quite a bit, but you didn't really seem too in to the conversations at hand. You didn't really try to stay in contact with me. I would've liked it if afterward you would've remained in contact with me at some point. To me, it just seems like you are a person who only talks when talked about/to when it comes to private conversations.

By the way, this is not me glorifying private conversations in any way. I'm just saying the three names I mentioned earlier are just usually not the most active in the thread, but their communication outside of the thread sort of makes up for it at least.

Also, I just realized PurplPanda is playing. Chances are he'll escape by unnoticed.

 

[Ashtot]

I'm going to agree with Trundle here by saying Kuma is definitely something we should all think about, many of you know what he did in Mafia VI and her play style is quite similar in every game. If we ignore a possible Kumafia, we could all be at risk, not to mention the that Kuma generally only posts when she absolutely needs to, and doesn't often contribute to Town. Just to be clear, I'm not accusing Kuma of being scum.

Now on about PurplPanda, if he is truly crying right now and doesn't even want to play mafia, all he will be is inactive, and we'll have no way of knowing whether or not he's scum. I'm not sure he would be the best person to lynch on day 1, but that is assuming he doesn't care about anything that's happening in game right now.

Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

Honestly I don't think Horus would be a good lynch candidate for day 1, I know he could become a distraction, but unless we get some kind of evidence, or somebody for some reason suspects him as being mafia, and I think we should leave it until another day, but I guess we'll see.

This may seem like a shot in the dark to you, but I'd like to point out Superpenguin. He threw me in ring of inactive players, when in reality, he knows how active I really am, especially considering last game. When I am not posting in the thread, I am viewing it or in the IRC thinking about the game. I find it very odd that he labeled me as inactive and a potential lynch candidate when he knows how I play. This could be trying to get revenge for things I won't mention, but I don't believe so. So far, these are my suspicions.
I
'm going to call out Trundle, Kayla and Gandalf as voices of reason, and for playing very pro-town so far.

Also, for the future, don't everyone all jump up and decide to target the king tonight when they make the wrong lynch (heard it here first).

And basically what Gandalf said, don't be a fool and hate me if I mislynch, It's day 1 ya dinguses.

 

[Farobi]

Basically anything not in the thread. I just remember in MM3, I was PM'ing you quite a bit, but you didn't really seem too in to the conversations at hand. You didn't really try to stay in contact with me. I would've liked it if afterward you would've remained in contact with me at some point. To me, it just seems like you are a person who only talks when talked about/to when it comes to private conversations.

You know what that's right. You know me in the game of mafia more than I know myself. *applauds*
I don't need to be in PM circles or anything, I just think it would be best for the Town in this game. In fact, I take PMing me back. I'll be the one doing it.

I also never go to IRC so if anything cool Mafia-related happens there please post in this thread guys :]

- - - Post Merge - - -

I
Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

Probably because i don't want Tom to modkill and ban me :[

 

[Superpenguin]

First off, I like how Ashtot isn't just going for the last resort ideas for lynching, rather he is actually gunning for suspicious behavior by other players to help guide him.

Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

Here's the thing though, do we really want to punish a player that wants to step up their game? Do we really want Farobi to play all the games like he always does, or do we want him to start contributing and benefiting town? Yeah, it is worth noticing Farobi is changing, but is this really a change caused by being scum?

This may seem like a shot in the dark to you, but I'd like to point out Superpenguin. He threw me in ring of inactive players, when in reality, he knows how active I really am, especially considering last game. When I am not posting in the thread, I am viewing it or in the IRC thinking about the game. I find it very odd that he labeled me as inactive and a potential lynch candidate when he knows how I play.

That's because you are inactive in the thread. I know how active you are in the IRC, and that's why I brought up that you are active in other means of communication. I didn't really label you as a lynch candidate, rather I just called you out on something from past games.

 

[KermitTea]

I'm just going to say that Ashtot is indeed a very weird choice for king on the first day. He doesn't seem to contribute a whole lot and he wasn't that serious in the games before.
I do like, however, the way he is breaking this down and actually suggesting candidates based on their behavior.
I agree with PurplPanda who is currently not in the mood to play at all.
I don't know much about Kuma though, and I also think that Farobi deserves a chance today since he said he's going to play more seriously.

 

[Horus]

Horus we all made our improvements to banner before we even had our roles.

Seriously it's like you're not even trying.

Yours wasn't even an animated gif

and don't make horus the kingmaker.. we'd never hear the end of it

I agree 100% on watching Horus. Horus is my friend outside of mafia, but I don't want to see Team Tots 2.0 in the beginning of this mafia as it makes everything chaotic.

This describes Horus perfectly as well, anyone who followed Mafia III would have seen him survive until late game by posting nothing but meaningless or wishywashy non-commital posts..

I'd say either lynch Kuma, PurplPanda, or Horus. Horus is obviously going to end up being the biggest "distraction" this game, which is exactly what we don't want as town. As we've already seen, Horus wants to lynch people based off their favorite pony.

Reasons I quit playing forum mafia until you scumbags begged me to play

1. The soul sucking/no fun allowed atmosphere
2. The highschool essay posts
3. The psychological bull**** in 50% of said posts

Yeah sure, I was sarcastic in my campaign post but guys, it's Day 1. No matter what happens, there is nothing to go by. Every game it comes down to who hasn't posted much in the last 4 hours, why don't we take a different approach and lynch someone who could actually be a threat? Or just pick at random? Both I proposed in my campaign. I went through and looked at all the first day lynches in the past games and besides the legacy of Gandalf, no big players were lynched. The only reasons I could think of for you guys going ahead with that every game is that; A) They won't be a big loss, especially if they haven't posted already. and B) Big players can be an asset if they are on Town. Both are decent reasons for lynching like that however, do you really think the inactive ones are going to be mafia? Probably not. No one says; "Oh great, another mafia role, I'm just going to go eat some pizza roles while I watch Spongebob." and keeping high level players is a double edged sword, in Mafia II, both Justin and Kayla were mafia and it was devastating. It'd be better to keep the people you can easily influence or manipulate.

I mean c'mon guys, PurplPanda and Kuma? No offense but they wouldn't change much mid or late game.


Salt for thought~

 

[KarlaKGB]

Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

A change in behaviour is certainly something to pick up on, but you need to see if this change is as a result of mafia motivation. That said, I haven't really seen any indication of Farobi picking up the slack this game.

Yours wasn't even an animated gif
Yeah sure, I was sarcastic in my campaign post but guys, it's Day 1. No matter what happens, there is nothing to go by. Every game it comes down to who hasn't posted much in the last 4 hours, why don't we take a different approach and lynch someone who could actually be a threat? Or just pick at random? Both I proposed in my campaign. I went through and looked at all the first day lynches in the past games and besides the legacy of Gandalf, no big players were lynched. The only reasons I could think of for you guys going ahead with that every game is that; A) They won't be a big loss, especially if they haven't posted already. and B) Big players can be an asset if they are on Town. Both are decent reasons for lynching like that however, do you really think the inactive ones are going to be mafia? Probably not. No one says; "Oh great, another mafia role, I'm just going to go eat some pizza roles while I watch Spongebob." and keeping high level players is a double edged sword, in Mafia II, both Justin and Kayla were mafia and it was devastating. It'd be better to keep the people you can easily influence or manipulate.

I mean c'mon guys, PurplPanda and Kuma? No offense but they wouldn't change much mid or late game.

I think most will agree that strong players benefit town more than scum, lynching a strong player on day one in the vain hope of killing a strong scum player is a terrible decision.

I'd say generally half of a scum team play the lurking game. I point back to Mafia III where lynn and Horus the lurkers were the last to be lynched. Fortunately town accrued enough of an information advantage through confirmations and circles to catch them from the process of elimination, but if you imagine a similar situation developing at LyLo, then you're in trouble.

I don't get what you mean by PurplPanda and Kuma not changing much mid or late game, nor the relevance to the discussion.

 

[Horus]

I think most will agree that strong players benefit town more than scum, lynching a strong player on day one in the vain hope of killing a strong scum player is a terrible decision.

I'd say generally half of a scum team play the lurking game. I point back to Mafia III where lynn and Horus the lurkers were the last to be lynched. Fortunately town accrued enough of an information advantage through confirmations and circles to catch them from the process of elimination, but if you imagine a similar situation developing at LyLo, then you're in trouble.

I don't get what you mean by PurplPanda and Kuma not changing much mid or late game, nor the relevance to the discussion.

It is true that it's more likely to have more strong players on town but lynching a strong player earlier does this; brings fear to strong players who might not of dealt with it for a long time if ever, creates more defensive posts, brings forth more alliances, basically just creates evidence for us to use the first couple of days and actually challenges high level players.


Also very possible but let's look at Mafia II. Justin and Kayla, both happened to be mafia. From the moment they were elected Mayor and Sheriff it was over. There was literally nothing Town could have done. Both very strong players who campaigned immediately and flat out won because of their prestige and experience. At that point they were to intimidating for anyone to challenge them but if, and I mean sometimes not to be just psycho or anything, we did something crazy like lynching early we would've had more of a chance.

Back to PurplPanda and Kuma, if they were the last members of mafia they would've crashed and burned just as easy as Lynn and me in Mafia III. They aren't as threatening as the potential of you, Karla, as mafia.

 

[KarlaKGB]

Also very possible but let's look at Mafia II. Justin and Kayla, both happened to be mafia. From the moment they were elected Mayor and Sheriff it was over. There was literally nothing Town could have done.

Umm, that's because it was the first time with elected roles and town didn't know how to play around them. The game wasn't over from the moment they were elected, it was over when everyone took their election to mean they could be trusted, and roleclaimed to them. To say there was nothing Town can do to win a game where both elected roles are scum is completely wrong. There were small pockets of resistance in that game who suspected Kayla, but with so many blues dead and most of town bought by the scum lies, town was doomed.

 

[iLoveYou]

I'm going to agree with Trundle here by saying Kuma is definitely something we should all think about, many of you know what he did in Mafia VI and her play style is quite similar in every game. If we ignore a possible Kumafia, we could all be at risk, not to mention the that Kuma generally only posts when she absolutely needs to, and doesn't often contribute to Town. Just to be clear, I'm not accusing Kuma of being scum.

Spoiler: Snip

Now on about PurplPanda, if he is truly crying right now and doesn't even want to play mafia, all he will be is inactive, and we'll have no way of knowing whether or not he's scum. I'm not sure he would be the best person to lynch on day 1, but that is assuming he doesn't care about anything that's happening in game right now.

Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

Honestly I don't think Horus would be a good lynch candidate for day 1, I know he could become a distraction, but unless we get some kind of evidence, or somebody for some reason suspects him as being mafia, and I think we should leave it until another day, but I guess we'll see.

This may seem like a shot in the dark to you, but I'd like to point out Superpenguin. He threw me in ring of inactive players, when in reality, he knows how active I really am, especially considering last game. When I am not posting in the thread, I am viewing it or in the IRC thinking about the game. I find it very odd that he labeled me as inactive and a potential lynch candidate when he knows how I play. This could be trying to get revenge for things I won't mention, but I don't believe so. So far, these are my suspicions.
I
'm going to call out Trundle, Kayla and Gandalf as voices of reason, and for playing very pro-town so far.



And basically what Gandalf said, don't be a fool and hate me if I mislynch, It's day 1 ya dinguses.

This. So. Much. I'm not accusing Kuma of being Mafia either. I'm suggesting that she would make a good Day One lynch simply because of her posting habits. On Day One there is no better person to sacrifice than someone who posts simply to say "sorry for not posting, I am busy in real life". It's not fair when you are left with them at the end of the game & it's impossible to tell their alignment because that is all their posts consist of. Luckily there are no newbies on the player list, so she is likely to get called out no matter what .. but I'm not letting this slip by this time. It's Day One & we don't have many good options to take a risk on.

Spoiler: Snip

I'm going to agree with Trundle here by saying Kuma is definitely something we should all think about, many of you know what he did in Mafia VI and her play style is quite similar in every game. If we ignore a possible Kumafia, we could all be at risk, not to mention the that Kuma generally only posts when she absolutely needs to, and doesn't often contribute to Town. Just to be clear, I'm not accusing Kuma of being scum.

Now on about PurplPanda, if he is truly crying right now and doesn't even want to play mafia, all he will be is inactive, and we'll have no way of knowing whether or not he's scum. I'm not sure he would be the best person to lynch on day 1, but that is assuming he doesn't care about anything that's happening in game right now.

Now for Farobi. I find it quite odd that Farobi decided to pick up his slack this game. He's generally not too active and he doesn't tend to benefit Town. What makes this game so special?

Spoiler: Snip

Honestly I don't think Horus would be a good lynch candidate for day 1, I know he could become a distraction, but unless we get some kind of evidence, or somebody for some reason suspects him as being mafia, and I think we should leave it until another day, but I guess we'll see.

This may seem like a shot in the dark to you, but I'd like to point out Superpenguin. He threw me in ring of inactive players, when in reality, he knows how active I really am, especially considering last game. When I am not posting in the thread, I am viewing it or in the IRC thinking about the game. I find it very odd that he labeled me as inactive and a potential lynch candidate when he knows how I play. This could be trying to get revenge for things I won't mention, but I don't believe so. So far, these are my suspicions.
I
'm going to call out Trundle, Kayla and Gandalf as voices of reason, and for playing very pro-town so far.


And basically what Gandalf said, don't be a fool and hate me if I mislynch, It's day 1 ya dinguses.

Spoiler: snip

First off, I like how Ashtot isn't just going for the last resort ideas for lynching, rather he is actually gunning for suspicious behavior by other players to help guide him.

Here's the thing though, do we really want to punish a player that wants to step up their game? Do we really want Farobi to play all the games like he always does, or do we want him to start contributing and benefiting town? Yeah, it is worth noticing Farobi is changing, but is this really a change caused by being scum?

Spoiler: snip

That's because you are inactive in the thread. I know how active you are in the IRC, and that's why I brought up that you are active in other means of communication. I didn't really label you as a lynch candidate, rather I just called you out on something from past games.

One of the reasons why this could have happened was because of last game. You guys know how much of a fuss I made about Farobi, last game. He said he was going to improve since last game really. Although it's not seen as much in that game. Farobi is still always one to look out for. He is always likely to slide by to the end because he is never a threat to Mafia. Being a "non-threat" to Mafia means that can be used as an excuse to make it to the end without it looking odd. Same thing with Kuma. We generally think it's okay that these two make it to the end simply because they aren't threats, of course Mafia will always let them play until the end for that reason alone .. but imagine one time when they get Mafia roles themselves. :/ That provides way too much of a cover for them.

Spoiler: snip

I'm just going to say that Ashtot is indeed a very weird choice for king on the first day. He doesn't seem to contribute a whole lot and he wasn't that serious in the games before.
I do like, however, the way he is breaking this down and actually suggesting candidates based on their behavior.
I agree with PurplPanda who is currently not in the mood to play at all.

I don't know much about Kuma though,

Spoiler: snip

and I also think that Farobi deserves a chance today since he said he's going to play more seriously.

This is our view on Kuma every single game. If she makes it to the end and does ever have a Mafia role, no one will suspect her ever because she is not a threat to Mafia so she is likely to always be one of the last players in the game. Also, if Mafia does eliminate most of us and she's one of the ones left Mafia can just easily take over the thread & she will likely follow.

As much as everyone keeps looking back at the games where I was Mafia .. believe it or not so am I on Kuma. :/ She's been Mafia before & stayed really quiet. This is exactly why I am targeting her first this time. If you're too busy in real life, let's do you a favour and take you out of the game now, before you are the one Town needs to rely on later.

Any of those names Ashton, would generally be doing Town a favour. Since Farobi is willing to contribute I'd suggest looking specifically at PurplPanda & Kuma for now. I'm not saying to ignore Farobi either friends, it's just 2/3 of those names are more priority to knock out before we have to rely on them later / guess their alignment later.

 

[KermitTea]

This. So. Much. I'm not accusing Kuma of being Mafia either. I'm suggesting that she would make a good Day One lynch simply because of her posting habits. On Day One there is no better person to sacrifice than someone who posts simply to say "sorry for not posting, I am busy in real life". It's not fair when you are left with them at the end of the game & it's impossible to tell their alignment because that is all their posts consist of. Luckily there are no newbies on the player list, so she is likely to get called out no matter what .. but I'm not letting this slip by this time. It's Day One & we don't have many good options to take a risk on.





One of the reasons why this could have happened was because of last game. You guys know how much of a fuss I made about Farobi, last game. He said he was going to improve since last game really. Although it's not seen as much in that game. Farobi is still always one to look out for. He is always likely to slide by to the end because he is never a threat to Mafia. Being a "non-threat" to Mafia means that can be used as an excuse to make it to the end without it looking odd. Same thing with Kuma. We generally think it's okay that these two make it to the end simply because they aren't threats, of course Mafia will always let them play until the end for that reason alone .. but imagine one time when they get Mafia roles themselves. :/ That provides way too much of a cover for them.



This is our view on Kuma every single game. If she makes it to the end and does ever have a Mafia role, no one will suspect her ever because she is not a threat to Mafia so she is likely to always be one of the last players in the game. Also, if Mafia does eliminate most of us and she's one of the ones left Mafia can just easily take over the thread & she will likely follow.

As much as everyone keeps looking back at the games where I was Mafia .. believe it or not so am I on Kuma. :/ She's been Mafia before & stayed really quiet. This is exactly why I am targeting her first this time. If you're too busy in real life, let's do you a favour and take you out of the game now, before you are the one Town needs to rely on later.

Any of those names Ashton, would generally be doing Town a favour. Since Farobi is willing to contribute I'd suggest looking specifically at PurplPanda & Kuma for now. I'm not saying to ignore Farobi either friends, it's just 2/3 of those names are more priority to knock out before we have to rely on them later / guess their alignment later.

Agreed. The way I view it is that there's basically no difference whether Kuma is alive or dead. Even if we lynch her, and she's a blue role, it's for sure a big loss but there's no difference since she doesn't contribute anyway.
There's a 50/50 chance of her being Mafia and I would say its a good risk to take for this Day 1 lynch.
Just look at the other current mafia game. Town has no lead on anyone because all the experienced players were lynched or killed, now all we have left is a bunch of inactives and we have no clue on what to do.
I'm not saying she's scum, I'm just saying that since we have no lead today Kuma is a good person to lynch so we don't have to worry about her alignment later.

 

[Justin]

(I'm so sorry for not posting! After school I had homework and chores and hardly anytime to probably go on Mafia to post what at least is decent.).

I apoligise for my disappearance once again, but today I have no excuse not to be here. I have very little chores and homework to finish, so I can easily multitask.

Again, I deeply apologise for my absence. I have been busy. Hopefully I won't be rushing to go to school in the morning.

Just to add onto what everyone is saying, these are in 3 out of 8 of Kuma's posts in Mafia VI. So I definitely get what everyone else is saying about her.

Also, I never thought I'd say this, but I kind of agree with Horus to a degree. Let's not forget to put attention on the good players in this game too, not just the three inactives that have been outlined so far today. We don't have to actually lynch them most of the time, but if no focus is put on them, we're not going to get any information from them.

More specifically, this is what I'm talking about:

brings fear to strong players who might not of dealt with it for a long time if ever, creates more defensive posts, brings forth more alliances, basically just creates evidence for us to use the first couple of days and actually challenges high level players.

 

[oath2order]

I have to agree on Kuma. If you know you're going to be busy irl, then why sign up?

 

[Elijo]

Beep. Hello. I was requested here. I'm going to say right now that a lynch for me is just a waste, since I am a townie. If you want to lynch me, go ahead. But I strongly advise against it.

 

[EpicGamer12]

Beep. Hello. I was requested here. I'm going to say right now that a lynch for me is just a waste, since I am a townie. If you want to lynch me, go ahead. But I strongly advise against it.

No matter how often you say that, it really won't matter. If you are a townie, you will be playing your role poorly this game just like many others, as an AFK. Townie is my favorite role because it has so much potential, and you really don't have to be afraid to die. It's too late now, in my opinion, but if you would actually post anything other than what you just said (that's probably what fills 50% of yours posts in all mafia games) without being requested to post, you wouldn't be suggested for being a Day 1 lynch. Learn to be active, or just don't play at all.

 

[Elijo]

No matter how often you say that, it really won't matter. If you are a townie, you will be playing your role poorly this game just like many others, as an AFK. Townie is my favorite role because it has so much potential, and you really don't have to be afraid to die. It's too late now, in my opinion, but if you would actually post anything other than what you just said (that's probably what fills 50% of yours posts in all mafia games) without being requested to post, you wouldn't be suggested for being a Day 1 lynch. Learn to be active, or just don't play at all.

(I lied about being requested lol.) You know what? Everyone that is calling me out is practically saying the same thing, as if they're attempting to start their own bandwagon train. I found that so ridiculous it made me laugh. In Mafia Four and previous games, I was still activeish, so you can't say that I've been inactive for ALL the games that I've been participating in.

 

[Justin]

Beep. Hello. I was requested here. I'm going to say right now that a lynch for me is just a waste, since I am a townie. If you want to lynch me, go ahead. But I strongly advise against it.

Need to see actions, rather than just apologies. And please, can we stop using the "If you want to lynch me, go ahead" line guys? If you're actually town, it's a horrible thing to say. If you die town, you are hurting your team. Just because you don't care doesn't mean you should give up for your whole team. It's not really playing to win with that attitude.

 

[Justin]

Adding to my last post since I can't edit, need I remind everyone of Makkine in MM3?