Mafia TBT Newbie Game VII: The Daily Tragedy - Town win

[toadsworthy]

1. Amanda1983
-As much as I remember from you from Miraculous lady bug, you were extremely questioning, very enthusiastic, and quite helpful. As far as I can see you are doing the same stuff and giving off the same vibes. Like literally your posts are exactly like that from the last game, even like extra little posts about real life. Like its such a specific format to your posts, I can't help but think you are town.
2. Sparro
-Everyone thinks you are being inquisitive and so town, but I'm not as sold yet. I looked at your posts and they just seemed to go off of other people's discussions rather than adding your own new viewpoints. You did bring up the lurking, but I'm not a fan of using lurking to scum read people as its not that good of a tool... I lurk a lot, but thats because I leave my computer screen up while I work on things. Also fleshy does lurk a lot from other games, so its not that valid of a point. You have brought up some things to think about, but I don't know if they necessarily add to discussion.... I just need more time to decide about your play style
3. Iwaseleanor
-Awkward wording of that one answer, no effort put forth to respond off anything, please come back. But I explained already
4. Fleshy
-Lurking aside, your most recent posts have been way more emotional than I remember ever seeing about you. I've pushed you multiple times in the past to speak up more and you still would seem somewhat lax. Yeah you will usually comply when pushed, but more so you seem way more aggressive to it this time. Long story short, you aren't matching up to Fleshy reactions that I've seen in other games, so I am more inclined to think you are mafia.
5. Nightmares
-Not much to go off of....
6. Menchie
-Your question about Mafia Killpower has made me believe you are very town. If you were mafia, you could've asked your QT or it would've been outlined more for you I feel like.
7. Arstotzkan [IC]
-Your reactions and analyses are typically kat imo. I had doubts at first, but your reactions to Entropy's questioning and more recent reads post seem like you all the time.
8. Toadsworthy [SE]
9. Entropy [SE]
-Looking back at last night, pushing easy lynches is always a red flag, but I know you are smart enough to know that it would make you look sus. But also you picked on me for deflecting which ok, I can see why you would think that about me. But I didn't back away from your question and looked at all sides of it. In my "deflective" question though I asked you your thoughts about things and you didn't answer my question either right away. So if you are gonna get me about deflecting, don't deflect my questions at the same time. Sparro brought up how you will post things (like the lynch for me and Fleshy) very early then explain it later. Same with how I asked you about your reads when being pressed about mine.... but you just ignored it and said I was deflecting. Only to post reads later. But then again all this points to your typical game of just being super aggressive and a little tunnely, so I'm torn.

I'm not wrong in saying that all of your posts to me are uber aggressive from the start, and my emotional responses and build-up are my reactions to being sussed without much reasoning which clearly triggers me (being sussed for grammar, Tae saying i was inspected cult, now this). Since I'm trying to get away from this and it makes me look scum, I will TRY to be more analysis oriented. But in all those situations I noted, the tone of my posts are the same.... so it should make you see that I'm town like all those other times. I'm done talking about it, because it made me feel attacked and I'm explaining here its my natural reaction and its my town meta all the time.

Voting Eleanor... I'm gonna be busy for the rest of the day

 

[Iwaseleanor]

Oh my sorry I intended to be active but I had more stuff to do than anticipated.
Ok I said I would prefer to be town because having played only one game of mafia, I haven't fully grasped this game. I genuinely just want to learn more of this game, by being different roles.

 

[amanda1983]

Oh my sorry I intended to be active but I had more stuff to do than anticipated.
Ok I said I would prefer to be town because having played only one game of mafia, I haven't fully grasped this game. I genuinely just want to learn more of this game, by being different roles.

El, could you comment on some of the drama (Sparro/entropyToads/Kat/Fleshy/whomever) and put together a reads post when you can, please? That would be really helpful.



- - - Post Merge - - -

EBWOP *...(Sparro/entropy/Toads/Kat/Fleshy/whomever) ...

 

[Fleshy]

Spoiler: i put in a spoiler here as my post is too long and hard to read

oh, i wasn't talking about policying you though.....

i've already explained...the reason i specifically mentioned you as a good lynch was because i legit saw u online/viewing the thread and u didn't reply. you didn't say anything for two days and then come back now

and if u want the reason about the rqs its the first sentence, i bolded it

also i didn't expect a detailed response but i did expect a response.....



idek what to make of you pushing me honestly.....especially since u saw me as town last game where i didn't sit there and explain all my reads but that doesn't mean they were weak (i was just lazy/unmotivated)

i feel like it's really redundant to keep going over the PL thing, i've stated why PL isn't bad and why i wanted to do it, so what about it exactly do you find it weak? and why do you townread toadsworthy?

also, why would you think eleanor and i are a team? (since you didn't mark anyone else as sus)

I know you weren't talking about PL'ing me now, i misread that earlier. I was quiet for a day, not much had happened, and by the time i did check the thread it was pretty late and I didn't feel like I could comment, honestly I didn't know what to make of it all, so I left it until morning. Probably not the best idea as a lot happened after i'd left, which I then addressed this morning.

I'm not trying to say your reads in general are weak (not in this game or the previous game) I'm just saying that the whole toads thing seems to have weak and forced reasoning (again, things you used as a scumread on toads you didn't mention on others). but I get that it's redundant and I'll leave it after this post

based on Toad's response when he said "Policy lynch? what did I do? .... oh kay... I figured it out. Don't be like that" I'm guessing that I'm missing or misunderstanding something completely here..? so there's really no point in me going on, but I find it weird how you mentioned that so early on yet didn't give actual reasoning (despite being here and commenting) until hours later. Like I said before, pushing a lynch like this and being so out there would be a bold move for mafia, especially this early on, but that exact reasoning would likely make people write you off, I think you're an experienced enough player to round round it that way. I think I've been reading into some things wrong and misunderstanding the whole PL/Toads thing, I'm looking for previous games you've played to get a better gauge of your meta and what's going on here.

you are implying i've targeted only you and toadsworthy, but i didn't. i also pressured other people (sparro and kat) but i don't think they're good lynches

also i've never seen you be emotional, so how could i be targeting you as someone that gets emotional?

and the last line is taking my reads out of context, how could i pressure toadsworthy for something i didn't know he was doing until after i pressured him? when i first mentioned PL it was super early in the game. it wasn't until later that i saw him make two reads and didn't notice he only made those ones until i ISO'd (isolated searched) him. that's when i dropped the PL thing and made that post.

I know you didn't, I'm not implying that, I'm mainly referring to this original comment without reasoning; (which has mainly been dropped anyway, (?) so i'll leave it now)

im down to let sparro slide if we PL toads or lynch fleshy

and what followed after.

I see where you're coming from about the last part, I'm not trying to take anything out of context, I'm just tying to reason with what is going on; you mentioned PL'ing Toads early on, no explanation, just out of the blue, it's as if you were expecting him to react (based on how he's played other games) therefore giving you more to go off and reason to scumread (the fact you mentioned not scumreading anyone as a scumread for toad but not when others also didn't have clear scumreads) however, you've just addressed that, so i'll leave it, I felt like the original pressure was just be an attempt to frame an easy target/s.

///
@Fleshy Weren't you being pushed in Imprison the Criminals by Chrys? And not buying this in the slightest:

PL wasn't the only thing, but it was the only thing mentioned at first, as i said before, it's weird that she just mentioned that right away only to wait and expand on it later, which is what i see as weird. it seems as if she was expecting a certian reaction from him to use to further scumread him.

My question was this:

What's your opinion on her push on Toads, then? Do you think her points were valid?

Points means multiple. That means her whole argument. Not the first part of an argument that's by far her weakest point.

I was questioned by Chrys early on based on my RQS answer, but there was reason given, plus a whole lot went down on discord. I don't know what there is for you not to buy? What I'm trying to say is that entrophy's original mention of lynching me and PL'ing Toad is what I found weird (but mentioning that is pointless and redundant now, it's been addressed and commented on), like I said already, I didn't understand that. I know that was your question and yes, despite not agreeing, I see where she's coming from with the points she made (12 hours after the original comment), it's just that I got those point, unlike what i commented on, I mentioned her points in the next post too.

 

[Arstotzkan]

@Fleshy

I'm... not sure if you're just sorely misreading everything at this point or what you're trying to do, but this is how I took it, and I'm pretty confident I'm taking it the right way? Correct me if I'm wrong?

So I asked:

But what about the other points entropy made against him? PL wasn't the only thing by a longshot. I obviously disagree with lynching based off of PL, but she isn't even using that in her arguement anymore.

based on you not mentioning her other points, besides PL, in this question:

What's your opinion on her push on Toads, then? Do you think her points were valid?

You reply:

I know PL wasn't the only thing, but it was the only thing mentioned at first, as i said before, it's weird that she just mentioned that right away only to wait and expand on it later, which is what i see as weird. it seems as if she was expecting a certian reaction from him to use to further scumread him.

I took this as you saying you didn't mention anything but PL since PL was the first thing mentioned, and then you launched into how she was suspicious because of it. And I'm not buying it because I don't see why it being first had much bearing, considering there was all of that back and forth later and the significance it had.

And it took me probing you to get you to comment about the other points in her argument so :v

Also, there's been reason given to be suspicious of you now. Idk what distinction you're trying to make between that game and this game.

 

[glow]

I know you weren't talking about PL'ing me now, i misread that earlier. I was quiet for a day, not much had happened, and by the time i did check the thread it was pretty late and I didn't feel like I could comment, honestly I didn't know what to make of it all, so I left it until morning. Probably not the best idea as a lot happened after i'd left, which I then addressed this morning.

for two days, not just one...

I'm not trying to say your reads in general are weak (not in this game or the previous game) I'm just saying that the whole toads thing seems to have weak and forced reasoning (again, things you used as a scumread on toads you didn't mention on others). but I get that it's redundant and I'll leave it after this post

based on Toad's response when he said "Policy lynch? what did I do? .... oh kay... I figured it out. Don't be like that" I'm guessing that I'm missing or misunderstanding something completely here..? so there's really no point in me going on, but I find it weird how you mentioned that so early on yet didn't give actual reasoning (despite being here and commenting) until hours later. Like I said before, pushing a lynch like this and being so out there would be a bold move for mafia, especially this early on, but that exact reasoning would likely make people write you off, I think you're an experienced enough player to round round it that way. I think I've been reading into some things wrong and misunderstanding the whole PL/Toads thing, I'm looking for previous games you've played to get a better gauge of your meta and what's going on here.

i briefly stated why here

lynching toads is beneficial cuz he just derails the thread

and in a different post right after that i stated why PL is useful.

I see where you're coming from about the last part, I'm not trying to take anything out of context, I'm just tying to reason with what is going on; you mentioned PL'ing Toads early on, no explanation, just out of the blue, it's as if you were expecting him to react (based on how he's played other games) therefore giving you more to go off and reason to scumread (the fact you mentioned not scumreading anyone as a scumread for toad but not when others also didn't have clear scumreads) however, you've just addressed that, so i'll leave it, I felt like the original pressure was just be an attempt to frame an easy target/s.

honestly i am pretty done with the whole PL thing.. i briefly stated why and how his behavior can negatively effect games... but like how do you not find his other behavior scummy is what i don't get.... if you don't think my reasoning for PL is enough that's totally fine but i'm confused as to why you don't think that the other things he's done is scummy.

he's SE....i'm not holding newer players to the same expectations as players like kat and toadsworthy.... its reasonable to expect someone experienced to have a scumread after 24 hours... so comparing toadsworthy's amount of reads to someone that is playing their 2nd game here isn't fair. that's why i'm not criticizing them the same way.

 

[Arstotzkan]

Alrighty, Im sorry, but this is probably gonna turn into a little bit of a wall.
@Entropy - Can you elaborate on your read of Menchie?

---

Spoiler

1. This point makes sense but I don't see not having any scumreads as a scumread itself, others don't have any scumreads, so why is that a valid reason to be sus of Toad yet it isn't mentioned when others do the same? again, it seems desperate, like she's looking for any reason to scumread toads,

2. Toad is so often scumread when he's town, usually helpful town at that, so i see nothing off by him holding off at all, he doesn't want to make stupid mistakes and end up lynched again? I don't know but I don't see anything off with toad holding back a little, i think it's pretty easy to see why he'd do so. (what game was he lynched maf day 1? If i read over that I might have a better understanding of where entropy is coming from here because at the moment I don't at all)

3. I don't see the lack of town interest, I just see slight reluctance, which as i said before, is understandable. Yes he could have said something about everyone being sus of me earlier if he thought otherwise, but i guess he was dealing with people being sus of him so that was his priority, I don't see his defense of me as a reason to scumread him, he's played more games with me (4/5 games i've played?) so i guess he felt like he had something to add there?

1) The reason I'm holding Toads to a different standard is that he's SE - he should know this stuff. It's a little bit more excusable for a noobie to not know what to do as much.

2) http://www.belltreeforums.com/showthread.php?386432-Micro-Mafia-Gayme

There's two sides to the toads coin - the side that is scum and trying to hide any possible mistakes, and the side that he's trying to preserve his reputation. You seem awful convinced that this coin's landing on the reputation end - why aren't you giving any consideration to the other side of it?

3) You're not understanding I don't think.. there were already 3 people who pointed out suspicion against you, but he didnt say anything until later. He didnt even directly challenge those reads.

Spoiler

EBWOP # 2 : Okay. So. That happened. Sorry. Maybe I'll learn that trying to finish a reads post (that I've been working on, amongst other things, since lunchtime) at 1:30am is a bad idea. Especially since I've been doing so whilst trying not to disturb my sleeping nephew who is visiting, smh..

(BUT PLEASE NOTE THAT I GOT THOSE ****ING COLOURS RIGHT THIS TIME, AT LEAST!)

I'm just going to continue my reads post now that I got the explanation out of the way :

Toadsworthy - hmm, so much could be said... but I think he's Town, and I think he's trying to hold himself in check after the infamous events of MLC (Miraculous Ladybug Cultists). It would be great if he could stop using words like "spastic" (please) or "bullying" in contexts where they don't apply, and generally tone down the defensiveness, but I think he's doing well to have held himself together under the pressure from entropy this game. I would just like to see more of a focus on finding Mafia, rather than rehashing the same ground that has been re-raised etc etc..

Side-note : I was around for the drama, yes, but I couldn't see any value in me potentially derailing an important "push" from entropy (please tell me I'm using that term correctly??), particularly in light of what happened the *last* time she got derailed.. so my only contributions would have been about "calming down" and "choosing words with care", similar to last game, and RL timing meant that didn't seem necessary by the time I was able to post. Afterwards I was engrossed in reading previous games and compiling my reads list as well as a list of general questions to ask Kat. And my nephew and other RL things.

Entropy - If she's Town, and Kat's Town, then things will be much easier to figure out. I'm *really* hoping she's Town since I like the logic she offers (again). So... I've left her "null" for now for the same reason for the null read on Kat. I know Kat already asked, but I'm very curious about the change in read for Menchie, as I have gone entirely the other way in my read.

---

Okay, that concludes my efforts for this evening. I will be halfway through a special library Storytime session with my nephew when Day 1 ends tomorrow (gotta love last minute family stuff), so I most likely won't be able to change my vote at the last minute. I'll be busy by around 10am my time, 2 hours before day ends. I'll still be reading here when I can, but I intend to have my vote placed before I get busy with kiddos.

I'm agreed on a lot of points you made on Toads, but I'm curious - if you think he's town, and you like the logic entropy has, what gives? Also, same question I gave to Fleshy in #2 goes to you too - what makes you so certain he falls on the preservation side of the coin?

Regarding your side note: I think it's a matter of playstyle choice, but imo its better to step in because you only have so much time in day. Having a discussion regarding someones' scumminess or lack thereof with all involved parties there isn't something you come across often (until EOD, which is already hectic).

Spoiler

1. Amanda1983
-As much as I remember from you from Miraculous lady bug, you were extremely questioning, very enthusiastic, and quite helpful. As far as I can see you are doing the same stuff and giving off the same vibes. Like literally your posts are exactly like that from the last game, even like extra little posts about real life. Like its such a specific format to your posts, I can't help but think you are town.
2. Sparro
-Everyone thinks you are being inquisitive and so town, but I'm not as sold yet. I looked at your posts and they just seemed to go off of other people's discussions rather than adding your own new viewpoints. You did bring up the lurking, but I'm not a fan of using lurking to scum read people as its not that good of a tool... I lurk a lot, but thats because I leave my computer screen up while I work on things. Also fleshy does lurk a lot from other games, so its not that valid of a point. You have brought up some things to think about, but I don't know if they necessarily add to discussion.... I just need more time to decide about your play style
3. Iwaseleanor
-Awkward wording of that one answer, no effort put forth to respond off anything, please come back. But I explained already
4. Fleshy
-Lurking aside, your most recent posts have been way more emotional than I remember ever seeing about you. I've pushed you multiple times in the past to speak up more and you still would seem somewhat lax. Yeah you will usually comply when pushed, but more so you seem way more aggressive to it this time. Long story short, you aren't matching up to Fleshy reactions that I've seen in other games, so I am more inclined to think you are mafia.
5. Nightmares
-Not much to go off of....
6. Menchie
-Your question about Mafia Killpower has made me believe you are very town. If you were mafia, you could've asked your QT or it would've been outlined more for you I feel like.
7. Arstotzkan [IC]
-Your reactions and analyses are typically kat imo. I had doubts at first, but your reactions to Entropy's questioning and more recent reads post seem like you all the time.
8. Toadsworthy [SE]
9. Entropy [SE]
-Looking back at last night, pushing easy lynches is always a red flag, but I know you are smart enough to know that it would make you look sus. But also you picked on me for deflecting which ok, I can see why you would think that about me. But I didn't back away from your question and looked at all sides of it. In my "deflective" question though I asked you your thoughts about things and you didn't answer my question either right away. So if you are gonna get me about deflecting, don't deflect my questions at the same time. Sparro brought up how you will post things (like the lynch for me and Fleshy) very early then explain it later. Same with how I asked you about your reads when being pressed about mine.... but you just ignored it and said I was deflecting. Only to post reads later. But then again all this points to your typical game of just being super aggressive and a little tunnely, so I'm torn.

I'm not wrong in saying that all of your posts to me are uber aggressive from the start, and my emotional responses and build-up are my reactions to being sussed without much reasoning which clearly triggers me (being sussed for grammar, Tae saying i was inspected cult, now this). Since I'm trying to get away from this and it makes me look scum, I will TRY to be more analysis oriented. But in all those situations I noted, the tone of my posts are the same.... so it should make you see that I'm town like all those other times. I'm done talking about it, because it made me feel attacked and I'm explaining here its my natural reaction and its my town meta all the time.

Voting Eleanor... I'm gonna be busy for the rest of the day

The Fleshy read changed from pro town to scumlean? What changed?

Also what's your opinion on Menchie's post (#123)?

 

[amanda1983]

~ snip ~

I'm agreed on a lot of points you made on Toads, but I'm curious - if you think he's town, and you like the logic entropy has, what gives? Also, same question I gave to Fleshy in #2 goes to you too - what makes you so certain he falls on the preservation side of the coin?

Regarding your side note: I think it's a matter of playstyle choice, but imo its better to step in because you only have so much time in day. Having a discussion regarding someones' scumminess or lack thereof with all involved parties there isn't something you come across often (until EOD, which is already hectic).

Ah thanks for catching this, I had meant to include the following quote from entropy (m/99 - message 99 in the thread) in the observer chat for the Miraculous Ladybug Cultists game https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/GQ3nMtvFJdr

meowmeowmeow
09-12-2016
12:01 AM ET (US)
im sorry but i am infinitely tilted at toadsworthy. he derailed me vs. panda and his personal insults towards me made me lose all motivation to make a case.

hes basically gamethrowing now after complaining all game about my friendly banter and ~****posting~ but all of a sudden posting poems and ****posting is ok now that towns more than halfway there to losing?

and he thinks his whiny ATE is enough to save him now?

yeah i am policying lynching him in every game i play with him

- after things got heated here I went back through that game and associated threads. In light of those events, I can absolutely see her perspective. I'm not saying she's *wrong* on Toads here, either ; I just think recent history is possibly clouding things.

---

It's 6:09am and Mr 4 is awake again fml and I haven't been to sleep yet... if I forgot to answer part of this, I'll do so later this morning lol.

 

[toadsworthy]

1. he townread two people but did not give a scumread. if you can actually townread two people you have a 40% of getting mafia just by POE (process of elimination) alone. if you're town then it's in your best interest to start trying to narrow it down more by scumhunting. but i don't see any scumhunting behavior until he felt pressured to.

2.it took a LOT of effort to get a scumread from him and he was lynched as mafia d1 for jumping on someone for bad reasoning (*i mean, it WAS a dethy's game but thats his only mafia meta). and now he stated he didn't want to give scumreads in fear of being scumread for them lol?

3. when he was pressured by me, the usual ATE (appeal to emotion) is still there, but i don't see any town interest.... kat already pointed this part out- his defense of fleshy was weird. why not say something earlier in fleshy's defense?

Finished my embryology test
And I want to address these questions since they are your biggest claims on me.
1. I understand that only town reading people looks scummy, because it seems like I am just trying to give good readings and not necessarily help town. But those two town reads I gave at the time were Menchie and Sparro. Both of whom at the time were coming under sus-fire. So by me saying they were town reads, I was trying to offer a reason not to sus them. (albeit sparro's justification was weak, because I had thought he was a PR and didn't want to say it out loud, but now I realize that idea was wrong and overturned it on sparro hence why he is null for me rn). So I had town benefit in those two town reads because it was trying to help us not mislynch.

2. I have been patronized for my reads lots of time, so I'm always hesitant to do them, especially this early with not much to go off of. Last game I was goaded to give mine once inspection came back sus on me, and even then torn to pieces. So yeah I am still a little weary and unsure of myself in giving reads from that. As well as when you kinda already have this stigma on me enough to want to PL me, it kinda justifies what I am saying. And I did have on on Eleanor. It just took me backed up into a corner with you to do it.

3. Well when you want to PL me and I know I'm town.... I do have town interest to try to dissuade you from that because lynching town isn't good. I'd rather lynch me than some PR, but still honing in on just lynching me isn't go do any good for the long run. I'm obviously not gonna reach you as like kat said, you aren't really open to seeing the other side of me where these ATE and type of posts and tone of my posts is normal for me.

 

[amanda1983]

EBWOP : forgot to answer your second question sorry. I'm not "so certain" he's Town trying to preserve his reputation. His disruptive/unfocussed posts strike me here the same as they did in MLC, and in that game I just didn't think he was Cult even in the mdst of that cluster****. And he was Town.

I'm not a gambler, so I don't want to make any rash decisions and start thinking I'm some kind of Mafia wunderkind. I want him to focus on *playing the game* - which is either going to help us hopefully beat Mafia directly, or by default (as he'll give himself away or other's will in response to him).

TLR = I "read" him as Town compared to others for now.

- - - Post Merge - - -

EBWOP : *midst ... TLR ...

Okay I'm going to sleep for reals now.

 

[toadsworthy]

@amanda, I never said fleshy was town to me, I said we shouldn't lynch him based on inactivity and lurking because he has been called out on that in every game I've played with him.

and Menchie's posts seems like a genuine new player response... she literally asked out loud what Mafia Killpower is like. if she was actually scum, she woulda stuck to her QT and asked in that

- - - Post Merge - - -

and I put Fleshy as scum lean after his recent posts because they seem more emotionally charged than what he usually does and different vibes from his usual lax self.

 

[amanda1983]

@amanda, I never said fleshy was town to me, I said we shouldn't lynch him based on inactivity and lurking because he has been called out on that in every game I've played with him.

and Menchie's posts seems like a genuine new player response... she literally asked out loud what Mafia Killpower is like. if she was actually scum, she woulda stuck to her QT and asked in that

- - - Post Merge - - -

and I put Fleshy as scum lean after his recent posts because they seem more emotionally charged than what he usually does and different vibes from his usual lax self.

Sorry what??? I never said anything to prompt this reply from you? Did you mean someone else, maybe Kat?

 

[toadsworthy]

@amanda yes sorry... you Kat and eleanor have like the same color schemes/ types of colors! I meant that in reaction to this quote
by Kat

The Fleshy read changed from pro town to scumlean? What changed?

Also what's your opinion on Menchie's post (#123)?

 

[glow]

Finished my embryology test
And I want to address these questions since they are your biggest claims on me.
1. I understand that only town reading people looks scummy, because it seems like I am just trying to give good readings and not necessarily help town. But those two town reads I gave at the time were Menchie and Sparro. Both of whom at the time were coming under sus-fire. So by me saying they were town reads, I was trying to offer a reason not to sus them. (albeit sparro's justification was weak, because I had thought he was a PR and didn't want to say it out loud, but now I realize that idea was wrong and overturned it on sparro hence why he is null for me rn). So I had town benefit in those two town reads because it was trying to help us not mislynch.

2. I have been patronized for my reads lots of time, so I'm always hesitant to do them, especially this early with not much to go off of. Last game I was goaded to give mine once inspection came back sus on me, and even then torn to pieces. So yeah I am still a little weary and unsure of myself in giving reads from that. As well as when you kinda already have this stigma on me enough to want to PL me, it kinda justifies what I am saying. And I did have on on Eleanor. It just took me backed up into a corner with you to do it.

3. Well when you want to PL me and I know I'm town.... I do have town interest to try to dissuade you from that because lynching town isn't good. I'd rather lynch me than some PR, but still honing in on just lynching me isn't go do any good for the long run. I'm obviously not gonna reach you as like kat said, you aren't really open to seeing the other side of me where these ATE and type of posts and tone of my posts is normal for me.

i do like your #1 paragraph but i don't really like #2 cuz ur implying i wanted to policy u for ur reads and that's the reason why you didn't want to post them

#3 i never said that i think you're town
i know ATE is normal for you, but it's the motivations for it is what is readable. e.g. last game when you got upset at me for not being serious enough it seemed like you genuinely wanted me to be more on track so it was easy to town read you but this game I don't see town motivated ATE, before you mentioned eleanor you just want me to stop trying to lynch you rather than u suggesting a better lynch

- - - Post Merge - - -

about menchie, it's really about her tone. it does feel genuine like she's still trying to understand how the game works, but I mean it's a pretty weak read at best. if her question had been about something obvious or about something that was included in the OP, that would be a different thing. I didn't want to lynch her cuz she seems like she's still trying to get a grasp on the game and i expected her to keep posting

but she stopped so i mean idk

 

[Fleshy]

Spoiler

for two days, not just one...



i briefly stated why here



and in a different post right after that i stated why PL is useful.



honestly i am pretty done with the whole PL thing.. i briefly stated why and how his behavior can negatively effect games... but like how do you not find his other behavior scummy is what i don't get.... if you don't think my reasoning for PL is enough that's totally fine but i'm confused as to why you don't think that the other things he's done is scummy.

he's SE....i'm not holding newer players to the same expectations as players like kat and toadsworthy.... its reasonable to expect someone experienced to have a scumread after 24 hours... so comparing toadsworthy's amount of reads to someone that is playing their 2nd game here isn't fair. that's why i'm not criticizing them the same way.

Not that there's much point mentioning the times but I posted my RQS answers yesterday (the 25th) at just after 6am, then posted today at 12pm (gmt), so that's why I'd say a day. I've gone over and ISO'd toad's posts in this game and honestly I just don't see anything that stands out as scummy? I read your points and I get them, but I also already addressed why I don't think the other points you made are reason to be so sus of him, although I do now get why you'd be holding him to a higher standard.

Spoiler

@Fleshy

I'm... not sure if you're just sorely misreading everything at this point or what you're trying to do, but this is how I took it, and I'm pretty confident I'm taking it the right way? Correct me if I'm wrong?

So I asked:

But what about the other points entropy made against him? PL wasn't the only thing by a longshot. I obviously disagree with lynching based off of PL, but she isn't even using that in her arguement anymore.

based on you not mentioning her other points, besides PL, in this question:

What's your opinion on her push on Toads, then? Do you think her points were valid?

You reply:

I know PL wasn't the only thing, but it was the only thing mentioned at first, as i said before, it's weird that she just mentioned that right away only to wait and expand on it later, which is what i see as weird. it seems as if she was expecting a certian reaction from him to use to further scumread him.

I took this as you saying you didn't mention anything but PL since PL was the first thing mentioned, and then you launched into how she was suspicious because of it. And I'm not buying it because I don't see why it being first had much bearing, considering there was all of that back and forth later and the significance it had.

And it took me probing you to get you to comment about the other points in her argument so :v

Also, there's been reason given to be suspicious of you now. Idk what distinction you're trying to make between that game and this game.

I think I must've been misunderstanding something somewhere? Anyway, no I'm not saying that PL is the most important thing as it was mentioned first, I was trying to say that I feel like it was still somewhat relevant and was a part of what was making me slightly sus of entropy, although I guess thing's have been better explained now by both entropy and you, and I see that mentioning it is pointless now. However, it was the first thing that seemed weird to me (maybe just due to my own misunderstanding though) and it was the only thing that had been said at that point.

I think it was more a misreading on my part that I didn't address her other points initially, rather than purposely avoiding the questions put to me, as that was not at all what I was doing.

I know there's been a large amount of reasoning against me at this point, but again, I mean initially. You mentioned that game as a valid reason to see my current behavior as off/not like my meta, but I was trying to point out that it didn't exactly play out like this (Chrys asked me a question, rather than "lynch fleshy, he's lurking", the manner in which they were put towards me was strikingly different, so it only makes sense that my response would also be different?)

- - - Post Merge - - -

and I put Fleshy as scum lean after his recent posts because they seem more emotionally charged than what he usually does and different vibes from his usual lax self.

I understand where you're coming from, I don't particularly see myself being emotionally charged right now but I can see the difference that you're mentioning, I've never been "pushed" like this before, especially so early on in the game, so I'd say the emotions coming into play would be expected as a response to that

 

[toadsworthy]

Entropy
#2 I know you weren't putting PL on me for my reads, but what I meant to say is when you have a stigma against me (enough to PL from the start of discussion), you are gonna be more inclined to just discount my reads anyway. Hence why I was even more nervous to post them when you were already going in on me. Hence why I didn't post until I felt I was backed into a corner about it.

#3 I know you never thought I was town... but I know I am town, so me trying to stop you from putting an easily justifiable lynch on premise not even relevant to this game has town interest in it because it open ups conversation to actually lynch mafia day one (even though its bad odds but still). So yeah I wanted you to stop lynching me because it was an annoying thing to say so early in the game and didn't want people pigeonholing me on that basis (when this was being discussed very early in the day, like end of day maybe it would've been more justified, but not with 24hours before lynch). Not to mention I did feel more personally attacked by you and the quote amanda brought up kinda brings evidence to it, so I used that ATE to fight what I thought was attacking. But as I've said since the start, I don't want last game to define what everyone thinks of me here.... hence why I came into this so positive, but last night kinda crapped on that feeling. Did I just say "screw it" though and be annoying like usual? no I put myself together and made the reads list I posted earlier.

 

[N e s s]

BREAKING NEWS!
Written by Ness​

---

The police have currently voted up 2 persons of interest:

Fleshy: 1 - entropy
Iwaseleanor: 1 - Toadsworthy

The police have currently set Iwaseleanor to be lynched! You have 4.5 hours left to vote. Players not voting are:

1. Amanda1983
2. Sparro
3. Iwaseleanor
4. Fleshy
5. Nightmares
6. Menchie
7. Arstotzkan

Remember that voting is required: Any player who doesn't vote will be automatically prodded.​

 

[glow]

@fleshy ohh i didn't account for the time zone thing, my bad

i'm torn on u now tbh

so like i'm running off of 4 hrs of sleep and i can follow your train of thought for sure. but the only thing is that i feel like at several points you ignored details which were kinda crucial. (focusing on the PL part more than anything, toads being SE) i just can't tell if you did that on purpose

but if ur town then the scumpool is sparro/eleanor/toads

when does day even end

 

[glow]

@fleshy ohh i didn't account for the time zone thing, my bad

i'm torn on u now tbh

so like i'm running off of 4 hrs of sleep and i can follow your train of thought for sure. but the only thing is that i feel like at several points you ignored details which were kinda crucial. (focusing on the PL part more than anything, toads being SE) i just can't tell if you did that on purpose

but if ur town then the scumpool is sparro/eleanor/toads

when does day even end

 

[N e s s]

@fleshy ohh i didn't account for the time zone thing, my bad

i'm torn on u now tbh

so like i'm running off of 4 hrs of sleep and i can follow your train of thought for sure. but the only thing is that i feel like at several points you ignored details which were kinda crucial. (focusing on the PL part more than anything, toads being SE) i just can't tell if you did that on purpose

but if ur town then the scumpool is sparro/eleanor/toads

when does day even end

9:00 PM CST

scrub read the day posts