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Team Fortress 2

bud said:
Why so much hate towards Medieval mode D:
I don't think it's bad and I'm pretty sure others don't either as there are quite a few servers offered on cp_degrootskeep. Though, if you find it terrible, I can't argue much with an opinion.

You're also quite strict when it comes to a Medic's duties.
In my opinion, I think everyone is free to play each class however they want as long as it works out for the team in some way. If Medics were only for healing, he'd have no syringe gun or bone saw. If Engies were only for building bases to defend, he wouldn't have the Gunslinger or the ability to move buildings.

EDIT: 2000th thread post gets!
Click to expand...
there's 24/7 servers for every valve map, last i heard.. doesn't mean 2fort's any better.

i am quite strict, because i want to win. different mindset, i guess.
also, that's a horrible example with the engie.. should've mentioned shotty or pistol, as both the gunslinger and ability to move buildings came about.. what, 3 years after tf2's release?
and the purpose of an engineer is not to be an all-out offensive force.. but to be able to support the team with his buildings, mainly the sentry, but the others still being of importance. without the tele, heavies and soldiers would take forever to push, or defend the front lines. dispensers both heal medics, and provide a safe haven for the team.
the problem i have is when engies don't build teles or dispensers, and just sit there whacking their gun.
i fully endorse the engineer making his rounds just outside of the sentry's range, if not only to protect it from those trying to take it down.. but to not build anything would be to miss the point of the engineer completely, and you'd probably be better off playing scout.

a medic that doesn't heal at some point should be playing another class, and that's that.
 
Psychonaut said:
there's 24/7 servers for every valve map, last i heard.. doesn't mean 2fort's any better.

i am quite strict, because i want to win. different mindset, i guess.
also, that's a horrible example with the engie.. should've mentioned shotty or pistol, as both the gunslinger and ability to move buildings came about.. what, 3 years after tf2's release?
and the purpose of an engineer is not to be an all-out offensive force.. but to be able to support the team with his buildings, mainly the sentry, but the others still being of importance. without the tele, heavies and soldiers would take forever to push, or defend the front lines. dispensers both heal medics, and provide a safe haven for the team.
the problem i have is when engies don't build teles or dispensers, and just sit there whacking their gun.
i fully endorse the engineer making his rounds just outside of the sentry's range, if not only to protect it from those trying to take it down.. but to not build anything would be to miss the point of the engineer completely, and you'd probably be better off playing scout.

a medic that doesn't heal at some point should be playing another class, and that's that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know the Engie example was a tad bad, I was thinking of excluding it, but I left it there just for the example's purpose. Mentioning the Shotgun or Pistol would have no purpose in my example because there are no tactics evolving solely those weapons (well there technically is, but that would be a tactic that I would consider useless).
I see that you basically want all classes to do what they were originally intended to do. I'm okay with that, but I like seeing alternate ways of playing a class. Though in some situations I do think that some players should adjust their tactics to help support the team more. Their current tactic may be helping, but is they switch to the default tactic, it could help more.
I think were also at a bit of a mix up too. I do have a mindset that wants to win. It's just I believe there are other ways to play a class just as efficiently. I adapt to my situations. What class I pick and how I play as that class all depends on the current situation. I go with whatever will help out my team. If I see a currently chosen class and/or tactic is not that beneficial to the team, I change it to something that is.

I think instead of bickering about this topic for the next 15 pages, how about we just agree to disagree?
Both you and I have very polar and static opinions on this topic, so I think it would be best to just conclude with that. If we don't stop now, by the time this discussion ends, we will eventually have discussed every tactic for every map for every class XD
 
bud said:
If we don't stop now, by the time this discussion ends, we will eventually have discussed every tactic for every map for every class XD
Click to expand...
what's the problem with that?

not like there's much new content in tf2 at the moment, anyways.

and no, i don't think we have a mix up.. what i'm trying to point out is that 80% of the time (lolmadeupfacts) a battle medic or an engie who doesn't capitalize on the use of his buildings (the only real perk to playing engie) will not be nearly as effective in helping the team as they would have been, had they done what their class is best at..

i'm not trying to say that every class should only play one way and one way only.. that would make no sense, considering, as you've pointed out, the medic has a gun and a melee weapon like everyone else. i do not however agree that a medic should capitalize on those weapons, instead of their medigun. i feel the same way about an engie and his buildings. there should nearly always be a dispenser close by for your teammate (granted they take it upon themselves to help protect the building), and a teleporter to get them back to the battle if and when they die. his is paramount when using the gunslinger, since the mini-sentry alone is not going to win the game (against a team with one decent demoman)

if an engie is just running around with their shotgun/pistol blazing, there is a point where they just need to be playing scout, or something else. they may be able to kill something, but that won't help the team as much as heals, speed, and killing + protection of an area.

and in regards to tactics with a weapon.. you use it to kill people. the engie was meant to use his shotgun and pistol, yet most every bad engie just sits behind his sentry (sometimes with a freshly-dropped dispenser behind him) and just turtles, doing nothing to really help push the opposing team back, or to help the team help him. 3 shotgun bursts or a spray of pistol fire can help a lot, when the other team is just sitting back and building an uber against you.

if you don't wanna continue, feel free to change the topic. just glad the tf2 topic isn't dead all the way. :p
 
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Psychonaut said:
what's the problem with that?

not like there's much new content in tf2 at the moment, anyways.

and no, i don't think we have a mix up.. what i'm trying to point out is that 80% of the time (lolmadeupfacts) a battle medic or an engie who doesn't capitalize on the use of his buildings (the only real perk to playing engie) will not be nearly as effective in helping the team as they would have been, had they done what their class is best at..

i'm not trying to say that every class should only play one way and one way only.. that would make no sense, considering, as you've pointed out, the medic has a gun and a melee weapon like everyone else. i do not however agree that a medic should capitalize on those weapons, instead of their medigun. i feel the same way about an engie and his buildings. there should nearly always be a dispenser close by for your teammate (granted they take it upon themselves to help protect the building), and a teleporter to get them back to the battle if and when they die. his is paramount when using the gunslinger, since the mini-sentry alone is not going to win the game (against a team with one decent demoman)

if an engie is just running around with their shotgun/pistol blazing, there is a point where they just need to be playing scout, or something else. they may be able to kill something, but that won't help the team as much as heals, speed, and killing + protection of an area.

and in regards to tactics with a weapon.. you use it to kill people. the engie was meant to use his shotgun and pistol, yet most every bad engie just sits behind his sentry (sometimes with a freshly-dropped dispenser behind him) and just turtles, doing nothing to really help push the opposing team back, or to help the team help him. 3 shotgun bursts or a spray of pistol fire can help a lot, when the other team is just sitting back and building an uber against you.

if you don't wanna continue, feel free to change the topic. just glad the tf2 topic isn't dead all the way. :p
Click to expand...
I think we have two different definitions of battle engie/offensive engie here. My version has a sentry in it. Although technically with or without a Sentry involved, as long as the engineer is building or present on the front lines would make him a battle engie.
Also about you saying how a lot of Engies just sit behind their sentries, just think of it this way: they're a perfect target for a stab and sap :p It's even better and more fun if you have the Eternal Reward. Those kind of Engies are really common on the 360. The only thing they know how to do is build a Sentry and Dispenser, repair buildings, and camp.
Now I must agree with you though that an engineer trying to push with just a shotgun and pistol is pretty much useless. Three other classes have the same shotgun as the Engie. All of those shotguns for the other classes are under the secondary slot. I think you can pretty much see what I'm getting at. The Engie's shotgun/pistol should only be used for defending himself and defending or assisting his Sentry.

And I've finally figured out how to put my opinion in a nutshell. I pretty much don't care how my teammates prefer to play as long as we win, I can feel the team flow and nobody dominates me. That one sentence just saved me from typing like a billion paragraphs.

I'm not gonna bother arguing any further about being a battle Medic. You seem to be pretty set to that opinion as much as I am with with mine :p
 
bud said:
I think we have two different definitions of battle engie/offensive engie here. My version has a sentry in it. Although technically with or without a Sentry involved, as long as the engineer is building or present on the front lines would make him a battle engie.
Also about you saying how a lot of Engies just sit behind their sentries, just think of it this way: they're a perfect target for a stab and sap :p It's even better and more fun if you have the Eternal Reward. Those kind of Engies are really common on the 360. The only thing they know how to do is build a Sentry and Dispenser, repair buildings, and camp.
Now I must agree with you though that an engineer trying to push with just a shotgun and pistol is pretty much useless. Three other classes have the same shotgun as the Engie. All of those shotguns for the other classes are under the secondary slot. I think you can pretty much see what I'm getting at. The Engie's shotgun/pistol should only be used for defending himself and defending or assisting his Sentry.

And I've finally figured out how to put my opinion in a nutshell. I pretty much don't care how my teammates prefer to play as long as we win, I can feel the team flow and nobody dominates me. That one sentence just saved me from typing like a billion paragraphs.

I'm not gonna bother arguing any further about being a battle Medic. You seem to be pretty set to that opinion as much as I am with with mine :p
Click to expand...
i think you think i'm missing the point of a battle engie..
if you're going to be an offensive engineer, you should be able to drop a mini sentry to help take some pressure off of the team, keep a dispenser close by, and still manage to get a tele up.

if you don't have a sentry.. you're still doing it wrong.. all the buildings are equally as important, it's just sad to me that the sentry gets so much attention, while the dispenser and tele are what really helps the team do well.

and i dunno. too tired to make a coherent post at this point, but i think both of us got across our points well enough.

SO.
HOW BOUT DAT CHEW CHEW
 
Psychonaut said:
i think you think i'm missing the point of a battle engie..
if you're going to be an offensive engineer, you should be able to drop a mini sentry to help take some pressure off of the team, keep a dispenser close by, and still manage to get a tele up.

if you don't have a sentry.. you're still doing it wrong.. all the buildings are equally as important, it's just sad to me that the sentry gets so much attention, while the dispenser and tele are what really helps the team do well.

and i dunno. too tired to make a coherent post at this point, but i think both of us got across our points well enough.

SO.
HOW BOUT DAT CHEW CHEW
Click to expand...
That's actually what I was talking about. My version of an offensive Engineer uses the Sentry and I usually try to get the teleporters set up and a dispenser back at the base for teammates.
And yeah, an Engineer that builds no buildings is doing it wrong because his pistol and shotgun are available in other classes if that's all the player wishes to use.

I think we'll put this discussion to rest finally as my brain is also about drained too. And I have a project to work on too, so this isn't looking good >_>

Onto other things...
Deep fried cheesecake. Discuss.
 
tl;dr, what I got from it was that you guys are arguing about the use of medics and engies when it comes to battles

My Input:

The useless members are: 1) Medics that run around with the Blutsauger, shooting people at point blank; and 2) Engies that run around shooting without making buildings/just putting up a level one dispenser. Think: bots.

Yes, medics have attack weapons. But their primary focus is healing and ubering/giving crits. Engies are pretty much defense. If an engie that builds his buildings leaves them to go fight, he leaves his buildings vulnerable. It's better to just move around instead of camp. Don't really know what the whole "argument" was about, so I don't know if that meant anything in said argument.
 
the engineer can be a GREAT offensive force if they know the map enough to know where to setup a safe zone.

mini sentries are way too OP if you have the resources to just spam them (payload maps = oh god no not again)

but using the mini sentry leaves you little to no excuse not to turn around and build a dispenser behind a wall while the mini sentry protects the immediate area that enemies are coming from. at worst, you just soften the opposition up enough to allow soldiers/scouts to pick them off.

teleporters are one of the nicest things to have if you're a slow class, and engineers who build them are definitely credit.

and no, let's talk about pl_frontier, as it's now an official map.
 
Psychonaut said:
and no, let's talk about pl_frontier, as it's now an official map.
Click to expand...
I played that map a long time ago when it was still just an unofficial map. From what I remember, it was a pretty epic map. Whenever I get a chance to play on the PC, I hope to check this map out again.
I also remember playing on cp_freight before they officialized it. Haven't played on that map for ages though.

For the heck of it, I think I'll list my favourite maps on TF2 by type:

King of the Hill:
koth_harvest_event
koth_viaduct

Arena:
arena_offblast

Attack/Defend:
cp_junction
cp_manor_event/cp_mountainlab
cp_egypt

Capture the Flag:
ctf_doublecross
ctf_2fort

Capture Point:
cp_coldfront
cp_fastlane

Payload:
pl_upward
pl_thundermountain

Payload Race:
plr_hightower

Territory Control:
Well there is only one...
tc_hydro

I think my overall most favourite map would be either cp_coldfront or pl_upward. Both of those maps are really well designed in my opinion.
 
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