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Answer me this, why DOESNT Jacob vote the town counterwagon to him. Why does he feel almost purposefully weak at EoD, and why is Punchy constantly trying to break off the lynch and get Bianca
You’re asking me for motives of the scum team when a million things could’ve been the reason. It’s not fair to just lock me in this based on a bs theory you’re making up. I understand coming up with a theory to explain everything, but you’re touting likes it’s full proof and it’s not
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If I had turn coated on punchy you would be sitting here saying I swapped last second and am scum, so I don’t know how I can win in this situation you’re gonna tunnel me into the ground unfairly, not hear a word I say, and be super arrogant about the whole thing even though you flip flopped the whole EoD. I have no interest in that and you wanna exaggerate crap on me to boot
I don’t think you’re scum yet but.... again you are being just super abrasive to play with to me specifically. I don’t want another warning so I’ll leave it at that and mind your tone, aka check your facts before you call someone a drunk and stop using caps to demean someone
Do you not see his attempts to get the lynch onto Bianca. His derision of the Jacob wagon before it was even a thing. He tried to squash that thing before I even made the first vote
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Since Toads feels left because I didn't make a case on him
Early on in the game you felt the specific need to defend Jacob. Despite not being an important null or townlean, I would feel that somebody who had no connection to him would certainly not feel the need to protect him. Especially considering that he hadn't been voted yet. This action is particularly out of character
I'm gonna ISO people and look at their posts from last night and start with town reads because they're easier. I'll mention everyone, but really only hitting the main town/scum leans
Heyden - probably my strongest town lean so far. Regular good content, looking at several different people. In a game where there has been so much crap talked, I feel like your reads have been numb to it all while taking out the good points. Asking the right questions at stupid moments like Punchy asking for reads on himself. With all of what punchy is and does, Heyden validated his scum reads on punchy based on like word choice (#511). If he was scum I feel like there is so much easier points to get punchy for than putting in such an in depth anlaysis like that. I don't necessarily believe in the argument or that punchy is so scummy.... but I think it shows a lot about heyden. The only bad thing for heyden is he is picking the easiest targets... bianca, punchy, and temptations
Chele - I'm fully aware that we've been tricked by chele in the past, but I mean her content is pretty good. She has like a certain naiveness to her though that is reading genuine
This post makes zero sense, because if mafia is chosen as kingmaker its not gonna be outright obvious. But like this doesn't sound like a scum theory to me... like if Chele is scum and writing this, she is on some next level stuff
Punchy - now punchy's being annoying, and its definitely not town helpful, but I'm about motives and scum-punchy doesn't have a motive to post about that "read me" crap. Punchy doesn't feel important and probably beat down from the 40 person game that he's not used to playing. Punchy wants to feel important and he isn't getting it. If he was scum I feel like he would understand his importance and wouldn't be thinking like this. I don't see him as scum, its enough for me to town lean him at the moment.
Important Nulls
Vanessa - I'm super glad that vanessa is king tbh because we all have a hard time reading her, however she is more likely to crack under pressure... and what better way to pressure her than this. So far she is the basic representation of what I expect from a king from either alignment on day 1, but what she does for the end of day will be telling.
Moving on to scum leans
Bianca - I read over the arguments about bianca and definitely think she is more scum-sided. I have been on the side of bianca before where she is very aggressive and we all think "how can she be faking, it feels genuine" and then she was scum. Through all of this, bianca is still remaining coherent and focused though.... bianca losing her mind is town bianca - ala tagsgate 2016.
Bianca is blunt. So when she is sussed as town she freaks out and screams about being town, but when bianca is scum she gets defensive in a weird way towards certain things
like this just sounds forced and weirdly worded too
And in all of this bianca's biggest scum read right now is Meta... like in all of this she didn't get upset at an actual player, she got upset at people using Meta and then she dipped out at the perfect time to hopefully allow someone else to get sussed and caught up over her while just trying to tear down the biggest arguments against her.
Trundle - I played scum with trundle in steven universe 2 and I was perplexed by the things he did, so he can be a loose cannon for the people thinking he wouldn't be drawing attention this early. This was from early on in SU2
I recognize that people can change, and its been a while for him in a game, but Trundle is probably one of the smartest people here. He knows what he's doing. The jump to AtE was just so out of character to what I expect from trundle, I think in the early games I compared him to a robot. Everything is just so out of characteristic and it reads all scummy to me. Underlying all this, he went into this game with restraint and said it himself, which seems more like a scum-aligned thought slip than anything town. Trundle/Vanessa team is not a thing at all, since he is the first one to really contest the active king. His main scum reads are Jacob because I don't know why and then proceeded to say that Vanessa is coasting when she is the 3rd most active person on this thread.
Temptations - I was wrong about scum reading temptations last time, so I'm cautious since they do seem a lot like the last game.
but I really didn't like his questioning of vanessa about her ideas for king and this interaction... it seems too interested. I get town wondering that, but it also reads scum-cautious. Otherwise their questioning seems better than last time
Why do two people, unravel and trundle, have Jacob as their biggest scum read? I don't see anything yet
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The biggest points seemed to be on bianca and trundle and punchy from last night.... so thats my thoughts
Personally, I think that Toads is visually struggling here. The Chele read I'm struggling to wrap my head around why he's reading her, moreover, why included the one quote. The Punchy read is purely emotional, lacking anything I would call good logic
Or, more importantly, why he's even taking the time to make a nullread on Vanessa. No other people in important nulls. It feels like he's acknowledging her presence for his own purposes
However, it's the scumreads that I take major issue with. He has an okish read on Bianca which I suppose could hold up now if I assume that Punchy could be town. The trundle read, is based on assumptations of his play, citing only something that he said in scumchat. However, changing ones playstyle from 1 year prior is NOT something that should be scumleaned for, and actively dislike that choose to use that. His Temptations read... idk I wouldn't even call it a scumread I'd call it a null
Why pick out Jacob from this and defend mog, what made you believe her over Jacob. Lots of people do the "I think one of these three people could be scum" thing. Mog comes off genuine no matter what, I want to ISO her and Jacob next from last night, but I just thought it was weird you picked mog's side for a seemingly bias reason.
Then you defend trundle who has been probably the most abrasive, albeit for a reason though. Like I want more on these reads because I have no idea why you Town read mog and trundle while thinking at the same time Jacob is scum
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Yeah I just don't know why everyone is scum reading jacob... but let me find these posts by Heyden and you, I just found unravel's
Here is DEFINETELY something interesting. Toads takes issue with Unravel defending Mog and going after Jacob because he disagrees with the read. Starting off by calling it confusing, he bashs Unravel saying that all three (Unravel, Mog, Trundle) is a weird grouping (which even then only two could be compatible with eachother (Trundle/Unravel), when Jacob is SRing Trundle because...Unravel and Mogyay mentioned him in a conversation
Wtf
This isn't something you take issue with
That read from Jacob is something you take issue with and was why I was the first to vote for him
You then proceed to call the Jacob case "senseless" when it should be pretty clear (as me and Trundle pointed out) that SRing that grouping of three is weird because they're obviously incompatible, and adding Trundle to the group is downright criminal
Toads likes to defend his teammates, and this is pretty clearly a case of it IMO
Punchy does this same shot every game.... idk why were suddenly now lynching him for it. Honestly I think it?s because trundle and mog are just not familiar with him. When punchy started mafia he was like this and got really defensive and this badly erratic however you wanna put it. Lately he has been better because the typical players were used to it.... I don?t think he is very town helpful throwing out ideas every time but still. That?s just punchy
It was demonstrated time and time again to you that Punchy was actually differing from normal play
He put forward lock reads with no notice, lashed out at anybody who so much looked at him in a bad way, and pushed the Bianca wagon for "shes acting like in Caxival from what I remember"
And yet you didn't change, saying that his meta was a difference of opinion
Does punchy really ever quote meta? Idk I dont really see punchy as scum because it?s literal the same **** each time with him. He very well could be and I?m falling for it again, but idk where y?all are pulling this in context to punchy
It aint the same **** everytime you where there last game where he was hunting. He coasted sure, but he actively used evidence and kept a somewhat open mind. He never locked anybody that game, except for the Dad near-lynch. You were there in Resistance where he, as mafia, locked his opinions and refused to ever change his mind, because it worked. He doesn't put forward complete teams as town, or call EVERYONE who even nulls him obvious scum. You're saying that there's no difference in his meta, I went out of my way to prove that there was, and you just discounted it.
I
I scumread jacob last game for the same thing and he was blue.... people are saying so and so is lazy, or so and so is erratic... when those people are known to just be lazy and erratic. Hence why if you read what they say moreso then it can be more helpful right now since we don?t have anything else to go off of. Like people saying punchy is erratic punchynis maf, don?t know punchy
I thought jacob was a stoner first time I played lol
However imhis most recent post makes absolutely no sense, I don?t know what he is trying to do when we?re all talking about punchy. It does feel really strange like what is his motive saying that? Do you think punchy is scum or not?
Because I don?t understand why everyone thinks he is scum outside some poorly toned posts! Maybe I?ve been focused more on my read bianca and supporting not punchy lynch br jacob never stood out to me
Again, defense of Jacob, "not understanding" that it's pretty clear his reads make no sense. You yourself had criticized him for lack of clearness on Punchy, and turn your back on it here
This is blatant. You're complaining that your "null" partner is being scumread at this point. The way you're treating Jacob he might as well be a townlock
Then I stand by my vote, these wagons are not that strong and I?m not just gonna let Dolby shove them down my throat. Also the consensus of trundle at one point was scummy too and that had more reason than these two, but for some reason we?re just focusing on punchy vs jacob
The big bad boogie monster Dolby. ok but seriously. You're holding me as some big force thats forcing this to be a lynch between two town...except you don't actually scumread me here. You complain that these two are being sussed for **** reasons but tbh I think you're just pissed that your teammates are getting the rope, and being vocal about it. What you're proposing is that the wagons are scum motivated as pushed by me and using your animosity towards me as a front to push that
I want my computer because I want to read on Jacobs posts. His last few posts were pretty bad though, I think is town still.... think Bianca?s scum, nothing of that makes me think she is town.
Evan is being too hyper aware right out the gate and I think he and ness look worst after that lynch. I?m really confused by mog at this point. Vanessa did kill jacob, but she was kinda roped into it had no other choice so i dont really think she is clear for anything. If anything it seemed like the niceness in vanessa didn?t want to kill jacob/ her scummate. Agreed we don?t lynch her day 2 but boy howdy if you lock her into a PoE because of just killing him I will find you and I will cut you
*Note, this post has been edited as Toads didn't make a merge. He intended to say that he thought Punchy was town
This post is doing nothing but cast doubt on people...besides Punchy
Idk how a town can townread Punchy at this point, and it aint Toads
I really only dislike one aspect in particular. This is e x p a n s i o n, but casting doubt on Vanessa is just mind blow. There's no reason for Vanessa to not go with the majority in such a fashion. She does not get pressured in. If she breaks her promise, its a clean break no input from the thread, not slowly being pressured and pressured into it. But besides, I think the biggest part here is that Jacob was acting defeated in the 15 minutes before the lynch, like he knew that no scum was going to save him, you going after Vanessa rubs me the wrong way
But when I asked you should we vote im punchy or Jacob, you shifted everything to bianca.... you didn?t just put out support for jacob, you tried to divert. There is a difference and I don?t see you necessarily clear from scum with him
It?s not gonna change he?s town lean, probably not my strongest but he?s on there. Punchy?s ?read me? stuff makes sense, you hated him using meta on bianca and mog but that showed me effort on his part and o don?t think he would do that as scum. He would just make stuff up and bop along like usual. Punchy doesn?t use meta ever, so him mentioning it at all doesn?t seem like him. But can we please talk about anything else.... I feel like so many people are getting passes in this game for no reason, Chele I liked but is quickly turning null to scummy
He used no meta, just cited that he remembered stuff from years ago. Didn't actually look back. But you are VERY quick to deflect from him, onto Chele for counting the votes at EoD, with no reference for the change besides doing that public service
It?s weird, but I think jacob thought it made him look better to not vote punchy. His last push was almost for trundle which makes me put trundle high in my town reads. It leaves open the possibility, but I don?t think it?s absolutley convincing like you think it is
hi ppl sry for disappearing yesterday, was kinda having a rough day and didnt rly have the energy to put towards trying to figure out wtf is going on in here, ik thats not a great excuse but its the truth so i cant do much more except promise to try and do better. idk y im being paired with evan and bianca since ive made it clear i sl evan and i think i interacted with bianca once the whole game but i guess ive prob been sus (i wouldnt say sus but ive def been acting differently from normal and ppl think thats enough to sus ppl so sure) and its on me to change that so ye
dolby didnt rly have any thoughts on me so if u wanna ask me any questions shoot
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as for bianca i dont think shes scum, wouldnt say its a townlock but its up there. same reason y im tring trundle and vanessa atm, i dont think she has it in her from what i remember to fake an emotional buildup and then outburst for the benefit of being read town, her frustration of being sr based on purely meta felt real to me. i didnt mention her as a potential lynch bc i genuinely though that town had gotten better ideas and decided to not vote her bc of the zero scummy things she had done lol, sry if ppl wanted me to talk about her
punchy looks scummy when hes town and towny when hes scum lol, this outburst rly looks to me like a town punchy outburst and im v sure that scum trundle wouldnt have been able to pull off that emotional outburst esp if he was apparently trying to be conscious of how he was percieved in the thread, so im voting jacob ty pls stop bullying me
as for bianca i dont think shes scum, wouldnt say its a townlock but its up there. same reason y im tring trundle and vanessa atm, i dont think she has it in her from what i remember to fake an emotional buildup and then outburst for the benefit of being read town, her frustration of being sr based on purely meta felt real to me. i didnt mention her as a potential lynch bc i genuinely though that town had gotten better ideas and decided to not vote her bc of the zero scummy things she had done lol, sry if ppl wanted me to talk about her
Ok, actually, this one confused me at the time, and I just want to ask you, were you agreeing with Evan's take or saying that Jacob/Evan was a possible team? Pretty sure you meant the latter but want confirmation
for the first bit, i was just commenting on how much trouble i had with reading punchy lol. the outburst he had when he was being lynched today reminded me a lot of the outburst when he was about to be lynched in another game (the ships to port one hosted by tina i think?? not sure) so i just labeled it as town bc thats what i was getting from him so far in the game. obv hes not a big a tl for me atm and hes just sorta gone into the idk wtf is going on pile with ppl like ness dolby and toads so im gonna try and read his and the other ppls stuff to form some kind of opinion on them. i think thats all u wanted me to explain in there but if not lmk
i voted jacob bc i thought he was scummy, im p sure i said somewhere before he was my biggest sl. im not gonna lie and say i was super sure he was scum, but i was fairly confident
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here it is, i was def less confident then but it was still my main sl, just got more confident the more i saw from him
omfg two bad things happened to me
1) i made a case about rune but seeing as she's here, scratch that
2) i made a huge punchy case but i crossed out the tab i was working on with it. and the autosave takes me back to my post on rune
ugh
id make a reads list if i could but most of today has just been a mess of ate back and forth, woodpines had a lot more actual content from what i remember. my read on jacob is v subject to change like im p sure i said before so its not rly worth me making a full iso or smth but i guess if u rly want smth he feels like hes said basically no new reads and is just jumping on ppl that everyone else is jumping on, and the one time where he listed 3 ppl and said he thought there was maybe one mafia between all three of them was super fishy and just looked like he was hedging his bets and not committing to a read (trundle said this stuff before i think which is y i didnt think it was super important to explain myself). ofc u could prob say some of that stuff about me as well which is y its a weak read but there u go i guess, this game has just kinda sucked so far lol
Ok, actually, this one confused me at the time, and I just want to ask you, were you agreeing with Evan's take or saying that Jacob/Evan was a possible team? Pretty sure you meant the latter but want confirmation
o sry, evan was defending jacob by saying that there was no real reason to vote for him and that ppl just wanted him gone bc he was being contrarian, which i thought was super sus and looked a lot like an evan jacob pairing, evan is still my biggest sus atm without going over the thread more closely
I need to look into Chele, Vanessa, Tae, Heyden (kinda), and Rune more, but a cursory glance at their ISO looks good. I like their TL of Trundle back when that read wasn’t popular
and i dont rly have more thoughts on punchy than what i said, ignoring possible teamings like 50 percent of what hes done has been super towny and the other 50 percent has been rly scummy imo, ill look into teamings and stuff when i can but im not comfortable putting him at anything other than null in my mind atm
Okay, so I want to start off with Punchy. The previous post I made about him ended up accidentally deleting thanks to me. Rip.
So far, I haven't liked Punchy's whole play this game. After Jacob's lynch, I decided not to follow up with him, but now that it's been brought up once again, I guess I'd have to. Anyways, to begin with, I do not like how Punchy pockets Mog. Punchy has had weird interactions with Mog this whole game, and there are so many posts to back this up. If Punchy flips scum, I am not sure whether to look at Mog or not. I am not even sure if Punchy is pocketing Mog, because based on Punchy's reads and tactics, they are very poor (like using old meta and inaccurate information). I personally townlean Mog slightly, but I'll include all of his Mog posts:
The occasional pocketing, referring solely to CTSTP to get on Mog's good side. May I please mention again that CTSTP was 10 months ago and Punchy still thinks it's valid meta?
Okay, this is intriguing. The fact that he insists that MOG would flip scum instead of him is weird. He doesn't come to his own defense, pointing fingers at Mog if SHE flips.
This post has two things wrong with it. The first reason being that he takes a COMPLETE turnaround and susses Mog now. This is what he's trying to do when he pockets Mog. At the last minute of EoD, he wants to be like 'OMG no Mog is scum!' so that people try to lynch her instead and not link her to Punchy since he 'changed his mind'. The second thing that is wrong with this is that he is shifting the blame onto Ness if Jacob is scum. If Punchy flips mafia, then Ness should be clear in all honesty.
Townreads: Mog- Mog is shy and uncomfortable, and kind of rambly as scum, trying to avoid the topic. Her content is not memorable as scum. A comparison to the last point specifically is Vanessa and Dedenne as scum. They aren't the same person, but if you don't know what I'm talking about, then that comparison is accurate.
Okay. THIS makes me feel like Punchy is highkey trying to suck up to Mog. He is trying to get onto her good side, so that if she is universally townread, then he'd be on her good side if she ever becomes KM so he wouldn't be lynched by her.
Look, I was right and he just proved it over here. He clearly wants Mog to be king since he's on her good side and he's trying to suck up, so that he doesn't get lynched. He said it twice himself. Also, the fact that Punchy doesn't want vig to shoot him (not sure why Town Punchy would be this scared to get shot) adds more sus to him, as he also stated that 'shooting me would get the most info'.
Also I feel that I should be bringing up the voting. In my perspective, town Punchy would probably ragequit and be like "FINE GUYS LYNCH ME". But he has changed so much. He genuinely doesn't want to be lynched, probably as that's gamethrowing if he's Mafia. Also, this is an essential quote from Punchy that I've found in the middle of the voting period.
I am so surprised that he is curious as to who would get hammered. He seems to actually care, and he knows that the lynch is going to come down to both of them. He wants to know who'd be hammered, probably because he wants the goon to die first. It explains his vote on Jacob then.
Wow. I find this role claim slightly suspicious. Punchy claims that he is a 'vanilla townie', but something to note is that if you look at the OP, the role specifically just says townie, and the info doesn't include anything about vanilla? It could be a made up claim on the spot, because he was pressured by others.
More like, "Jacob read me and disguise me so I could pretend to be useful". But that fact that he specifically asks Jacob out of everybody is definitely not town-like.
He's just trying to save himself. And the more I read into his posts, the more that Dolby's theory is starting to become true.
Overall, I feel that Punchy is even more suspicious and I would recommend to definitely lynch him D2. I understand that from today, EoD was very stressful because it was our first lynch and we were unsure. But now that we have evidence and the confidence from lynching Mafia D1, I'm confident for a Punchy lynch D2.
Anyways, that's all I have. For now. I'll probably be on for the rest of tonight (so like 3 more hours).
No, I decided to make a case on your inactivity and absence during EoD and how scummy it was. Seeing as you popped up and explained your absence and thoughts, I guess I can't really carry on with the case.
No, I decided to make a case on your inactivity and absence during EoD and how scummy it was. Seeing as you popped up and explained your absence and thoughts, I guess I can't really carry on with the case.
I?m hoping vig will shoot Punchy tonight so we can move on to another topic tomorrow, but if he somehow isn?t shot I?ll probably pursue him again but for now I?m not gonna put effort.
If Punchy does flip scum tbh I don?t really know who I?d move on to.
I?m hoping vig will shoot Punchy tonight so we can move on to another topic tomorrow, but if he somehow isn?t shot I?ll probably pursue him again but for now I?m not gonna put effort.
If Punchy does flip scum tbh I don?t really know who I?d move on to.
If he does flip scum, then at least the KP would be lowered.
And also I am pretty sure that we could do PoE on who'd be cleared if Punchy turned out to be Mafia.
Dolby - voted him D1
Toads
Antonio Vanessa - wanted to vote him at first, before just going for maj Heyden - voted him D1 Bianca - would def be cleared if Punchy flipped
Evan Waffles - Waffles was highly against Jacob and called him out first
Tae Chele - voted him D1
Rune
Trundle Ness - Punchy heavily scumleaned him Mog - scumleaned Punchy, Punchy also tried to pocket her
So then that leaves us with Toads, Antonio, Evan, Tae, Rune and Trundle. Considering there's two more scum left, then that means the last two are in that bunch. There's two inactives (Tae and Rune, however, Rune is becoming more active) and Toads, Trundle, Evan (correct me if I'm wrong here) and Antonio have all defended Punchy. So it's going to be hard.
The two people partnered up can't be Rune and Evan, because of Evan's high sussing of Rune.
Also Toads, Evan, Trundle and Rune have all voted for Jacob, leaving Antonio (who voted Trundle) and Tae (who didn't vote).
That's all I am going to say for now. If Punchy doesn't flip Mafia then I'd actually lose all my hope in this game. I've made such a big case on him and there's no turning back now tbh.
If he does flip scum, then at least the KP would be lowered.
And also I am pretty sure that we could do PoE on who'd be cleared if Punchy turned out to be Mafia.
Dolby - voted him D1
Toads
Antonio Vanessa - wanted to vote him at first, before just going for maj Heyden - voted him D1 Bianca - would def be cleared if Punchy flipped
Evan Waffles - Waffles was highly against Jacob and called him out first
Tae Chele - voted him D1
Rune
Trundle Ness - Punchy heavily scumleaned him Mog - scumleaned Punchy, Punchy also tried to pocket her
So then that leaves us with Toads, Antonio, Evan, Tae, Rune and Trundle. Considering there's two more scum left, then that means the last two are in that bunch. There's two inactives (Tae and Rune, however, Rune is becoming more active) and Toads, Trundle, Evan (correct me if I'm wrong here) and Antonio have all defended Punchy. So it's going to be hard.
The two people partnered up can't be Rune and Evan, because of Evan's high sussing of Rune.
Also Toads, Evan, Trundle and Rune have all voted for Jacob, leaving Antonio (who voted Trundle) and Tae (who didn't vote).
That's all I am going to say for now. If Punchy doesn't flip Mafia then I'd actually lose all my hope in this game. I've made such a big case on him and there's no turning back now tbh.
Both of them flipping scum would probably widen the scumpool, bc the lynch for the day was obviously between Punchy and Jacob. If Punchy flips scum, that could easily mean scum was on the Jacob/Punchy wagon bc they didn't have a choice but to lose a team member, and I suspect Jacob was dropped bc Punchy is either strongman/roleblocker/godfather/framer.
From your list though I think Toads/Evan/Rune def sticks out a lot rn, Antonio to me is townlock, Trundle idk. I do feel that way about Punchy though, if he flips town I think I'm gonna get a lot of flack.
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Wait I think I understood your post wrong I'm not sure
