What do you think of Cultural Appropriation?

[mocha.]

I think the main reason for anger toward cultural appropriation is that, for example, black features were suppressed and disrupted for years and many people assume that this cultural appropriation being shown is a matter of 'dress up' and turns their cultural significance/history into something playful. Many people (especially those who are white) are adopting these features or styles and not receiving the same backlash that many poc receive, even in modern times.

That said, I'm white and therefore cannot define/determine exactly what cultural appropriation is, because I was lucky enough to be part of a race that hasn't been oppressed for hundreds of years.

EDIT: Also wanted to add on that it really annoys me when people who AREN'T poc start arguments about what they perceive to be cultural appropriation, because it makes the reality more easily dismissive as people can then call them "snowflakes" because they're calling out everything and everyone. Leave it up to the people with the history of discrimination to decide.

 

[Romaki]

I completely understand all this, if you're trying to use an element from another culture that has a specific meaning, you should be aware of the core values and the meaning and symbolism of that object in the other culture. That's why I believe it's OK if a white woman wears an Indian dress IF she's aware of the meaning of that dress and what does it represent. I wouldn't be offended if a non-Christian and non-European person wore traditional Spanish, Mexican or European clothes.

It probably depends on the context of the situation as well. Most of the time headlines come from college parties where people wrote offensive things as their status as well. And usually those people also try to make a mockery off of other people's skintone and shade even. But like Día de los Muertos shouldn't be used as an aesthetic, other cultures don't disrespect western Day of the Dead/Day of Remembrance either. It all boils down to respect, but for me it's also about people being truthful and respectful of their own tradition. If you don't follow them and dress up for the occasion, why do you do it for others? Just because they're more aesthetically pleasing? That's disrespectul to culture.

Post automatically merged: Apr 22, 2020

EDIT: Also wanted to add on that it really annoys me when people who AREN'T poc start arguments about what they perceive to be cultural appropriation, because it makes the reality more easily dismissive as people can then call them "snowflakes" because they're calling out everything and everyone. Leave it up to the people with the history of discrimination to decide.

This may be true for America, but in Europe different countries have different cultures all while being white. So white people writing on this thread can also have valid experiences that can be shared on this thread. Culture isn't inherently of color, for me the topic is about respect (and history).

 

[thatveryawkwardmayor]

As a person who is "white" but also from a non-anglosaxon country and would be considered a minority in America, I think cultural appropriation is wrong when the culture "owning" the thing said so. Like dreamcatchers and native american headdresses - they actively try to stop us from wearing it.
But nothing pisses me off more than white people yelling "cultural appropriation" at things that in fact aren't hurting anyone. It got to an absurd point where it's a trend for a person of color to accompany a white person participating in something so that they dont get called out on the internet for it.
Also I think we should consider WHERE exactly the "appropriation" happens. I found it really uncomfortable that an asian girl in an asian country was bullied into unbraiding her cornrows (i think it was in Japan). See, Japan is already very racist towards black people and to them, no matter how they'd wear their hair, they would look like aliens. Wearing cornrows in this situation seems harmless, or even helpful - normalising something!

Which gets me to my point: shouldn't it be ok to have a "look" based on a minority culture, while embracing its origins, so it can be normalised? It seems like an easy way to stop something from being "weird" to others while from this percieved "weirdness" harassment is often born.

i would agree you on this but until white people stop mocking minorites and theres better representation in media of underrepresented minorities it's a rocky path to normalization.

 

[cIementine]

there's a fine line between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation - you can appreciate a culture but when you use that culture consistently as part of your identity, dismissive of its history, especially when people of the culture in question often face discrimination for partaking in their own culture, that shows ignorance.

 

[mocha.]

This may be true for America, but in Europe different countries have different cultures all while being white. So white people writing on this thread can also have valid experiences that can be shared on this thread. Culture isn't inherently of color, for me the topic is about respect (and history).

If you’re defending your own history I don’t have a problem with it but when it comes to speaking up for other cultures/races about issues they’re facing I feel it’s best left up to the ones actually experiencing it. I’m fully supportive of any defence they make but I don’t want to put words into their mouth.

 

[radical6]

I don't care what someone does. They can wear my culture's clothes as a halloween costume for all I care.

Its when they profit off it is wrong. Cultural Appropriation is when Urban Outfitters stole Native American's designs and sold their cheaply disrespectful jewelry.

I don't care what some 14 yr old does. Are they making money off it? No. People put too much significance on a harmless act. If someone is selling and profitting over marginalized people, however, that is a problem.

 

[KnoxUK]

Basically people are annoyed at cultural stereotyping, despite it being a natural way of life?

 

[Sprinkles_penguin]

I think the main reason for anger toward cultural appropriation is that, for example, black features were suppressed and disrupted for years and many people assume that this cultural appropriation being shown is a matter of 'dress up' and turns their cultural significance/history into something playful. Many people (especially those who are white) are adopting these features or styles and not receiving the same backlash that many poc receive, even in modern times.

That said, I'm white and therefore cannot define/determine exactly what cultural appropriation is, because I was lucky enough to be part of a race that hasn't been oppressed for hundreds of years.

EDIT: Also wanted to add on that it really annoys me when people who AREN'T poc start arguments about what they perceive to be cultural appropriation, because it makes the reality more easily dismissive as people can then call them "snowflakes" because they're calling out everything and everyone. Leave it up to the people with the history of discrimination to decide.

Maybe your ancestry comes from a section of white people who weren’t oppressed but that doesn’t mean white people were never oppressed in history. People like the Spaniards, Italians, Jews, Polish, Ucranians, and also other Slavic people are white but have suffered discrimination at some points in history. A few hours ago I posted on this same thread a list of examples showcasing how Christians have suffered throughout history, and those examples involve primarily white people. Check it out.

Also, I’ve never been fond of the term poc. Who even is a person of color? Where do you determine if someone is poc or not? Is it based on physical appearance, ancestry or culture? This was specially interesting because I once heard a blonde Mexican girl calling an African baby “poc”. But is that Mexican girl poc or not, even if she’s blond but also has some non-white roots?

 

[thatveryawkwardmayor]

Maybe your ancestry comes from a section of white people who weren’t oppressed but that doesn’t mean white people were never oppressed in history. People like the Spaniards, Italians, Jews, Polish, Ucranians, and also other Slavic people are white but have suffered discrimination at some points in history. A few hours ago I posted on this same thread a list of examples showcasing how Christians have suffered throughout history, and those examples involve primarily white people. Check it out.

Also, I’ve never been fond of the term poc. Who even is a person of color? Where do you determine if someone is poc or not? Is it based on physical appearance, ancestry or culture? This was specially interesting because I once heard a blonde Mexican girl calling an African baby “poc”. But is that Mexican girl poc or not, even if she’s blond but also has some non-white roots?

in the context of western culture and dominant view. white europeans are not opressed or face the same struggles as minorites do. yes individual and ethnic groups may have been gravely discriminated against before in history but the current standing today it’s not comparable to what POC go through in mostly white dominated countries. period! and you can thank imperialism and centuries white supremacy for that

 

[ZetaFunction]

the morality of cultural appropriation/appreciation I think also depends upon what moral theory you go by. is it intentionally bad or is it just FLAT OUT bad 100% whether the intention is bad or not? e.g. if I wear a hijab because I wanna make fun of that culture vs. i wanna wear one because it's a mood vs. i wanna wear one because im interested/curious; it's only bad in a certain case if ur moral theory makes it bad. it's "cultural appreciation" to you if your personal moral theory makes it acceptable. then again, u cant force people to adopt a moral theory (COUGH free will COUGH), so this debate seems rather pointless

Maybe your ancestry comes from a section of white people who weren’t oppressed but that doesn’t mean white people were never oppressed in history. People like the Spaniards, Italians, Jews, Polish, Ucranians, and also other Slavic people are white but have suffered discrimination at some points in history. A few hours ago I posted on this same thread a list of examples showcasing how Christians have suffered throughout history, and those examples involve primarily white people. Check it out.

Also, I’ve never been fond of the term poc. Who even is a person of color? Where do you determine if someone is poc or not? Is it based on physical appearance, ancestry or culture? This was specially interesting because I once heard a blonde Mexican girl calling an African baby “poc”. But is that Mexican girl poc or not, even if she’s blond but also has some non-white roots?

i agree, "poc" is a term that should honestly not be a thing anymore. Basically means "all non-whites" but define white-- are spaniards, italians, jews, polish, ukrainians, slavics, etc. (the examples you mentioned) white or poc??? What is the determining factor?? Skin color?? Aren't we all colored by definition then?? throwing around this term carelessly implies you don't care about the repercussions of its definition, and that you favor those who are a subset of all poc defined under *your* definition of "color". and cultural appropriation ascends beyond whatever this ideal definition of poc is anyways-- culture =/= skin color

EDIT: after some thought, i think of "people of oppressed ethnicities" and "poc" as completely different ideas but I understand most probably see it as the same...,,,,,, i guess under that assumption, then ..... including, say, spanish people into POC is like including aces/bis into lgbt, some see it as wrong (esp if the aces are cishets or bis perceived to be attention thirsty cishets) whereas some see it as fine.

 

[Oblivia]

I'm just going to hop in and post a small reminder before things get heated here. All posts that were condescending or argumentative in nature have been removed, and I want to remind people that if you want to debate, you need to do so respectfully and without insulting other users in any way. If you can't do that, please steer clear of threads with controversial topics.

Carry on, but keep things polite even when disagreeing. Thank you!

 

[Sprinkles_penguin]

As a person who is "white" but also from a non-anglosaxon country and would be considered a minority in America, I think cultural appropriation is wrong when the culture "owning" the thing said so. Like dreamcatchers and native american headdresses - they actively try to stop us from wearing it.
But nothing pisses me off more than white people yelling "cultural appropriation" at things that in fact aren't hurting anyone. It got to an absurd point where it's a trend for a person of color to accompany a white person participating in something so that they dont get called out on the internet for it.
Also I think we should consider WHERE exactly the "appropriation" happens. I found it really uncomfortable that an asian girl in an asian country was bullied into unbraiding her cornrows (i think it was in Japan). See, Japan is already very racist towards black people and to them, no matter how they'd wear their hair, they would look like aliens. Wearing cornrows in this situation seems harmless, or even helpful - normalising something!

Which gets me to my point: shouldn't it be ok to have a "look" based on a minority culture, while embracing its origins, so it can be normalised? It seems like an easy way to stop something from being "weird" to others while from this percieved "weirdness" harassment is often born.

I agree. Embracing a style, a look or certain clothes with that pure intention would be totally OK, and would actually be helpful.

I also agree with the part saying that people yell at things that aren't hurting anyone. Most of these people are White Anglo-Saxon though, as it's important to emphasize that there are minority cultures in Europe that have faced discrimination.

 

[staticistic1114]

while cultural appropriation exists and is definitely not ok, i think there are three main issues regarding this phenomenon: that people dont understand what it means, misrepresentation of the culture, and the need to feel offended on behalf of others' culture ... emphasis on the last one lol

little background on me, im commonly categorized as a "middle eastern" (wrt where i wonder? lmao) or an Arab and the concept of cultural appropriation is, i would say, fairly new to my people since we didnt get much of media's attention or exposed to media until recently for that matter. nonetheless, thinking of something like Aladdin id say maybe that was an attempt to portray an Arabic culture?? but sadly it was really a jumble of "middle eastern" cultures and not really true to one, my guess is since it was inspired by 1001 Nights it probably just picked here and there from the collection and was also seen from a western pov lol and i wasn't very happy with the casting of the live-action movie too its just a big mess of orientalism and cultural appropriation

another thing that bothers me is how others feel the need to feel offended on behalf of me, when me and literally any other person of my culture doesn't mind it. i recently saw this person on twitter who felt offended that a model dressed up in traditional Emirati attire (that's my culture specifically) and posed in front of a famous mosque in my country. i was so confused that she felt the need to attack her and the model even apologized, and although the attacker was Arab herself, she was not Emirati to "have an opinion" on it, and in reality a lot of Emiratis were very happy to see her dressing up in our clothes! but then again, what can you expect from twitter..

sometimes people really dont understand what it means and it kinda makes the term seem .. exaggerated? as the op thought it was enjoying other cultures or trying their food, it really isnt about that. its more of false representation and profiting out of (usually disadvantaged) cultures that is not your own

 

[Sprinkles_penguin]

It probably depends on the context of the situation as well. Most of the time headlines come from college parties where people wrote offensive things as their status as well. And usually those people also try to make a mockery off of other people's skintone and shade even. But like Día de los Muertos shouldn't be used as an aesthetic, other cultures don't disrespect western Day of the Dead/Day of Remembrance either. It all boils down to respect, but for me it's also about people being truthful and respectful of their own tradition. If you don't follow them and dress up for the occasion, why do you do it for others? Just because they're more aesthetically pleasing? That's disrespectul to culture.

Post automatically merged: Apr 22, 2020

This may be true for America, but in Europe different countries have different cultures all while being white. So white people writing on this thread can also have valid experiences that can be shared on this thread. Culture isn't inherently of color, for me the topic is about respect (and history).

I agree with what you've said but as a Mexican, I'd have no problem with someone dressing as a Catrín/Catrina from Día de los Muertos for Halloween. I'd have no problem if a White Anglo-Saxon American/Chinese/Vietnamese/Argentinian/Arab/etc. person wore actual traditional Mexican clothing. As long as they understand the sombrero and poncho are more of a tex-mex thing and actually dress with, for example, a Mariachi suit, it's perfectly ok and I would actually celebrate it.

Post automatically merged: Apr 22, 2020

in the context of western culture and dominant view. white europeans are not opressed or face the same struggles as minorites do. yes individual and ethnic groups may have been gravely discriminated against before in history but the current standing today it’s not comparable to what POC go through in mostly white dominated countries. period! and you can thank imperialism and centuries white supremacy for that

I see that your idea of a white person is of a white Anglo-Saxon person from Northwestern Europe. I know that imperialism was created of the basis of white people being superior, but other minority groups of white Europeans still face discrimination in their countries and in the US. For example, Jews or the Roma people.

 

[staticistic1114]

I do understand this, and I know that it might feel a little bit weird if you see someone from another religion wearing or using symbols, but as long as they are doing it respectfully, I don't care if I see a non-Christian person wearing a crucifix (I'm Catholic). In fact, Muslims, long ago, culturally appropriated hijabs from the Jew and Christian peoples in Europe and the Middle East (veils and other clothes resembling to modern day hijabs were used long before the Muslims started to use them. Actually, early Muslims viewed headscarves and veils as an oppression to women).

while you are right that muslims did not "invent" the hijab, i think you're using the term too loosely there. i am sure you also agree that christians and jews (two completely different religions) also did not "invent" veils either. veils started out as articles of clothing that resembled social status in the middle east and europe and much later when the islamic community began, wearing a hijab was not even a thing right until the specific verse of the veil was descended to the prophet and was addressed to his wives only

the reason for the "hijab" as mentioned literally in the quran was meant as a barrier since the prophet, becoming a powerful leader, had to protect his wives somehow and the tradition of veiling important women was followed after iranian and syrian upper-classers. if you had read the quran, you will notice that often the "covering up" and "prophet's wives" are always mentioned together (other women in the prophet's time did not wear the hijab! but ofc practiced modesty), which is what caused the controversy you mentioned with early muslims.

nowadays a lot of people attach meaning to the hijab and have turned it into an identity for muslims, which i do not personally believe it is. it has become such that any woman who does not wear a hijab like myself is seen as "not practicing properly" or "does not look like a muslim". in fact, early in my country women (obviously) did not wear the hijab until i would say 1960s - 1980s when something known as the "sahwa" in arabic, roughly translated as "islamic awakening" occurred. its aim was to give power to male religious scholars politically and they basically enforced the hijab and has then blended with my culture to become one and the same. i could go on and on about this movement but the point is whether or not the hijab is a muslim thing or not really depends on how you choose to see it

 

[Antonio]

I actually agree with cultural appropriation, you shouldn't take a small part of someone's culture for aesthetic reasons since you won't face backlash as other people. If you truly want to appreciate the culture, do your research and ask someone if you can do it. It all depends on the context of the situation.

 

[Alienfish]

I think cultural appropriation is wrong when the culture "owning" the thing said so. Like dreamcatchers and native american headdresses - they actively try to stop us from wearing it.

Wow apparently I'm racist because I have a pre-owned dreamcatcher then (jk but yeah some people sheesh)

But yeah, people need stop being "only natives/black/asians etc. can own or wear things" Like some people do everything they can to stop people from wearing like a poncho, headdress or owning a dreamcatcher which is like... no. Unless they would do it for some kind of "fun" dressup... just stop also you don't know what blood runs in their veins.

And yeah re Japan that case sound godawful. I think yeah we need to normalize and embrace other cultures without yelling in a respectful way. I mean you should never wear eg. blackface or things like that, but then again there are apples and oranges with everything. You should of course never (again) normalize- faces but people need to stop erasing history and to distinguish things.

 

[ams]

I think it depends on context. I live in Canada and for many decades indigenous people here weren’t allowed to speak their own languages, live in their own homes, wear cultural clothing or take part in cultural ceremonies. Children were removed from their homes to “save” them from their own cultures and convert them to western Christianity. So for someone who is not indigenous to do things like burn sage, wear indigenous beadwork, or wear things like headdresses that have significant cultural meaning is just disrespectful. It’s one thing if you’re invited by someone of that culture but to just flippantly copy someone’s culture when they were forcibly deprived of it for so long seems so ignorant.

 

[Goshi]

Cultural appropriation isn't a good thing and has nothing to do with appreciation...

To culturally appropriate something means to disrespect a culture and its background. It's wearing an item with special rules and significance from that culture and deciding to ignore all of that for the sake of capitalizing off of an aesthetic. It's mostly built on concepts of colonization(aka these things are capitalized on BECAUSE they were stolen from these cultures), and a good example off the top of my head of this happening would be the appropriation of dream catchers, probably(which are iirc only used by one tribe anyway, and is constantly blanketed as an item used by all Natives).

This is different than a culture willingly sharing foods, for example. Although probably, without a good grasp on how damaging colonization has been, nobody's gonna get a clear idea on how serious CA can be.

 

[N e s s]

I'm pretty sure there is a difference between appreciating culture and cultural appropriation. When you ask me "Is cultural appropriation bad?" my immediate thought is the boys at my high school that have paraded around in sombreros only to start chanting "deport the mexicans!" When I think of appreciating cultures I think of the Dia de Muertos festival I go to every year where I get my face painted as a sugar skull.

Using a culture's generational symbols as a means of promoting your own sense of self-worth takes a pretty good amount of privilege.

EDIT: And to elaborate, I think the "well what line do we draw then" argument is bad. The people within that culture have a right to say what is and isn't offensive and derogatory to the traditions they've upheld.