What is gender?

[Aniko]

I agree with most of your points, and I was already previously aware of the multitude of variations of naturally grown chromosomes, but I am curious (and I am asking to learn); isn't all the XXXX, XO, XXYY stuff just off chance genetic mutation? I don't know if it even plays into gender because isn't that all completely unrelated to the mind?

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I think you need to read a book sometime.

I started the thread so I'M the one deciding on the topic mind you. Do you have to read a book to know what gender you are today? Do you relate to one? Do you think it might change if we take off the reasons why you think you have one?
We are playing with ideas here. We have no need for books.

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Sure it is but a lot of people are stuck on the thought that only xx and xy exist and that these are what determine someone's sex/gender, and that women strictly have xx and men strictly have xy so I mentioned them.

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Gender isn't one of those things. It isn't an opinion like "what do you think of dipping your fries in ice cream". If you're asking what gender people are, fine. But what gender actually is isn't something subjective or personal



This would never happen ever. Mainly because gender isn't genetic anyways.

Hm... People may have a lot of opinion on genders, they surely know how to tell someone else what gender they should be, but when it comes to their own gender, they can't always tell why they relate to one. Most of people just go with if they are fine or not with their genitals, but we know it's not just that. What gender is really, it's something more complexe I would think.

 

[seliph]

Hm... People may have a lot of opinion on genders, they surely know how to tell someone else what gender they should be, but when it comes to their own gender, they can't always tell why they relate to one. Most of people just go with if they are fine or not with their genitals, but we know it's not just that. What gender is really, it's something more complexe I would think.

Gender is one of those things where the more you look into it the more confusing it gets. Since it's a concept that was basically forced on us as it is, most peoples' response to "What makes you feel like you're a ____?" other than referring to their genitals would be "I just feel like it" and that's really all it needs to be.

 

[Aniko]

So I'm closing this thread because obviously everyone just want to talk about the neighbor's gender and why they are wrong to think that way.

Thanks to the people who participated.

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Gender is one of those things where the more you look into it the more confusing it gets. Since it's a concept that was basically forced on us as it is, most peoples' response to "What makes you feel like you're a ____?" other than referring to their genitals would be "I just feel like it" and that's really all it needs to be.

Absolutely, it wasn't perhaps clear enough in the first post.

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Oh we can't close thread here?...LOL Well I will let the choice to the moderator then.

 

[Soda Fox]

Okay people it's all interesting but the question was about you personally. Why do you think you belong to a gender if you belong to one. There are no bad answers, you may change your mind. you may not know. It's doesn't matter.


Also if the reason why you think you belong to a gender disappear, will your opinion change as well?

Examples:

your doctor tell you your chromosomes doesn't match your genitals, you are in fact genetically the opposite gender.

You lose your genitals in an accident or due to a disease.

Fashion change and all the clothes you liked are now destined to another gender.

All gender roles switch.


I would think, it would not change anything for most of people, they would still think they belong to the same gender.



I like that quote... Exactly, what makes sense to you doesn't necessary make sense for the neighbor. It's how it is...There is no absolute way to tell what gender a person is. And I'm bringing back the case of Caster Semenya.

I wanted to answer this because I get what you mean now. Sorry we didn't understand.

My gender is female because I was born female and despite my masculine preference I choose to identify as what I was told I am my whole life. So my gender is my choice built on the social constructs I was taught.

 

[seliph]

No one's talking about anyone else's gender though. People are just defining gender which is great because a lot of people still have the wrong idea about it. Learning is good.

 

[Ghost Soda]

Well, to be fair, the title itself is pretty general. Maybe a more personal title for the thread, like maybe "What does gender mean to you."

Personally, identifying as agender, gender is a weird thing to me. It's like, the thought of people seeing me as a man or a woman just bothers me. I'd perfer it if people just saw me as a human being without any kind of gender attached to me one way or the other. That's just me, though.

 

[seliph]

Well, to be fair, the title itself is pretty general. Maybe a more personal title for the thread, like maybe "What does gender mean to you."

I think even that would bring a bunch of people with transphobic and cissexist comments but then again so would anything with the word "gender" in it.


Anyways to answer the question I'm a "femme" dude but it means nothing and honestly gender is stupid and I wish we could all forget about it entirely.

 

[Ghost Soda]

I think even that would bring a bunch of people with transphobic and cissexist comments but then again so would anything with the word "gender" in it.


Anyways to answer the question I'm a "femme" dude but it means nothing and honestly gender is stupid and I wish we could all forget about it entirely.

You're right. It's sad but true...

 

[Aniko]

No one's talking about anyone else's gender though. People are just defining gender which is great because a lot of people still have the wrong idea about it. Learning is good.

Oh yeah they did, nobody said names, but we talked a lot more about "other people" and "in general". (even me)
And it wasn't really the point even if it's interesting.

There are already plenty of studies and articles on the subject telling us what we should think, but I'm interested in what people think of themselves, and why they are relating to a gender. There are no bad answers. If a cis-woman (or not) relate to the female gender because of the clothes, long hair and girly stuff, be it. It's sure that it's not shared by everybody and another person could also call herself woman without any of this. I wanted the people to feel free to say what they think without fearing being judged, if they feel that way because of their sex, it's alright as well, but they have to keep in mind that it's not everybody that can do that.

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Well, to be fair, the title itself is pretty general. Maybe a more personal title for the thread, like maybe "What does gender mean to you."

Personally, identifying as agender, gender is a weird thing to me. It's like, the thought of people seeing me as a man or a woman just bothers me. I'd perfer it if people just saw me as a human being without any kind of gender attached to me one way or the other. That's just me, though.

Yeah maybe ... "What does gender mean to you" I may take yours...

It's also a weird thing to me, but I let people see me as they want, human or alien. It's doesn't bother me but they can't expect me to act according to their own definition of my gender.

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I think even that would bring a bunch of people with transphobic and cissexist comments but then again so would anything with the word "gender" in it.


Anyways to answer the question I'm a "femme" dude but it means nothing and honestly gender is stupid and I wish we could all forget about it entirely.

So I will keep it like this then.

It's how you feel and it's alright.

For people I'm a masculine girl, or sometimes I shy guy, sometimes they can't tell. To me it's doesn't matter. I say that I'm attracted to guys, but I don't really have a clear definition of what a guy is either.. But yeah it's a slippery slope better not go that way...

 

[Dogemon]

I was referring to the general idea that females are more emotional, more empathetic, and men are more logical and mean.

That's literally what the concept of brain sex comes from. What is brain sex? What is the difference between a "male" and "female" brain then? So they have different brain waves that mean nothing?

No one can give a true, concrete definition of gender without relying on "brain sex" or using gender roles, or using some vague definition that it's a "feeling". Gender is either not real or its a social construct like race.

I brought that up because you people have NO definition of gender. This means ANYONE can call themselves trans. Thats NOT what trans means.

I'm sticking up for real trans people being shut out of their own community by overzealous SJWs who are excusing their own rapists in their community who use being trans as a disguise.

No one in this thread has a definition of gender that makes sense. All this beliefs that gender is some "feeling" and that anyone can be x gender and that anyone can be trans is exactly why we have rapists in the trans community.

I've been in that forsaken community and watched all my dysphoric friends get shut out, they get denied hormones and HRT because their doctors don't think they're actually trans. Why? Because they get 20 patients who tell them their gender is faegender, that their gender is stargender.

Doctors don't take any trans person seriously anymore, unless you live in a very liberal trigger happy area.

Trans people want to transition to a different sex, not to a different gender. Everyone in this thread saying all genders are valid are ridiculous. Faegender and spacegender or whatever 23 yr old college students identify are aren't. real.

Biological male brains and biological female brains do have slight differences, and they don't mean anything. As gyro noted, the amount of neurons in the hypothalamus is different between sexes and trans members often do have brains that align with their cis counterpart. I was not trying to ever say brains have gender-based behavior or anything like that. Also I've never met an educated doctor who has denied helping a trans person due to dealing with Tumblr idiots. Perhaps I live in a progressive part of the conservative South.

It's your prerogative if you want to police who and who is not trans because you think there are a ton of rapists who are posing as trans, which statistically there isn't, but I personally don't see how you can say who is and who isn't.

 

[Bowie]

Just because you have your life in order doesn't mean anybody else has to be in any sort of a rush to be or be pressured into thinking a certain way.

It's nobody's business but their own whether they think they're a man, woman, or beast. If someone came up to me and told me they were a woman I wouldn't really care. Not sure why anybody would feel the need to ask them about it either way, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Primarina]

And there you're just flat out wrong. Biology is an incredibly flexible, often messy thing. Do you think XX and XY are what every person on the planet is? Because you'd be very, very wrong. Some people only have one sex chromosome. Some have three or more.

Also, I wasn't aware that "no average person" included so very many people. I certainly don't mean biological sex when I say "gender". Neither does... basically anyone I know younger than about 60.

My apologies. It just... irks me when people insist their own view of things is some undeniable truth. Especially when they are factually, demonstrably wrong. I have a hard time not challenging such people.

Oh the irony, because you're factually, demonstrably wrong. And I know people with intersex conditions exist, but still all that matters is the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. You could have just a Y or XXY and either way you're male. You could have X or XXX and either way you're female. Any statement to the contrary is factually inaccurate.

And if you really think pretty much everyone under 60 agrees with your definition of gender, you're simply mistaken. Where's your evidence for that assertion? Did you take a scientific poll?

 

[seliph]

Oh the irony, because you're factually, demonstrably wrong. And I know people with intersex conditions exist, but still all that matters is the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. You could have just a Y or XXY and either way you're male. You could have X or XXX and either way you're female. Any statement to the contrary is factually inaccurate.

And if you really think pretty much everyone under 60 agrees with your definition of gender, you're simply mistaken. Where's your evidence for that assertion? Did you take a scientific poll?

Hi where's your evidence for literally anything you've said in this thread?

 

[Primarina]

yes bc ppl have been McFreaking Wrong 4 a long time. gender and sex arent the same thing just like how chaurs abd sofas arent the same

also how are gender roles biological ...

No, they haven't been wrong. Biological sex, which gender has always been a synonym for, can't be changed and is the only thing that matters in determining one's sex, not their feelings, not how they dress, nothing.

I never said gender roles are biological and if that's what you got out of what I said you are mistaken. I said biology influences the roles cultures assign the sexes. In other words they are not entirely independent of biological influence; they don't occur in a vacuum.

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Hi where's your evidence for literally anything you've said in this thread?

Where's yours? You're the one contradicting biology 101, so the burden of proof is on you, the one making the claims contrary to basic biology.

 

[seliph]

Where's yours? You're the one contradicting biology 101, so the burden of proof is on you, the one making the claims contrary to basic biology.

My first post was full of links, go click on em.

Also sex has not "always been" a synonym for gender. Especially now that dictionaries are literally changing their definition.

 

[oath2order]

My first post was full of links, go click on em.

Also sex has not "always been" a synonym for gender. Especially now that dictionaries are literally changing their definition.

it always has been but that doesn't mean it always will be

let me be the semantic ******* ok

 

[Primarina]

My first post was full of links, go click on em.

Also sex has not "always been" a synonym for gender. Especially now that dictionaries are literally changing their definition.

It has always universally been a synonym for gender until very very recently in history when some started to change the definition for political reasons, and most people still use them synonymously, even doctors.

 

[Dogemon]

It has always universally been a synonym for gender until very very recently in history when some started to change the definition for political reasons, and most people still use them synonymously, even doctors.

Ancient historians of Greek and Rome also felt that gender and sex we're different though?

Also sidenote, I literally work with and have lived around doctors for most of my life and none use gender and sex interchangably.

 

[seliph]

It has always universally been a synonym for gender until very very recently in history when some started to change the definition for political reasons, and most people still use them synonymously, even doctors.

If there's an "until" then it is not "always" anymore.

Science itself has again and again proven that sex and gender are different things but some people want to cling on outdated dictionary definitions that were written by some blumbering old fart.

Also I'm going to ask again, where are your sources for these "most people"? You've asked many people for sources, which they have given, but you haven't given any yourself. I would like to know where you get your information.

 

[oath2order]

It has always universally been a synonym for gender until very very recently in history when some started to change the definition for political reasons, and most people still use them synonymously, even doctors.

or maybe it was always used differently but because of the oppression that trans people had to live under people couldn't talk about it like they do now