What’s your opinion on America?
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Apple Imperialist
@nintendofan85
Your long post reminds me of one of my cause/effect scenarios (where the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was of the long-term causes of the 9/11 attacks). But I can’t take for granted because history is a lot more complex, even within a 5-year-span from the last 10 years. Elementary school and middle school students were taught that history was that simple. Examples include:
- Civil War started because of slavery
- Herbert Hoover started the Great Depression
- Japanese Americans were sent to internment camps because of Pearl Harbor
All of these are true, but it’s not as simple as it seems. The Civil War was primarily about slavery, but there was a series of conflicts other than slavery that caused the war. Herbert Hoover didn’t start the depression. It was bound to happen because of a lack of regulation, excessive spending habits, and other mounting problems, all of which lead to the stock market falling. What Hoover is responsible for was that he didn’t do anything to relieve people from the depression. The government says it’s natural. As for the internment camps, it was more than just Pearl Harbor. For 50 years, Americans hated Japanese-Americans. They were scared of them for a long time. The Pearl Harbor thing was the last nail in the coffin.
I think the purpose of history in lower-level education was to teach people what happened and why it happened. The purpose wasn’t to teach them how complex it is.
Your long post reminds me of one of my cause/effect scenarios (where the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was of the long-term causes of the 9/11 attacks). But I can’t take for granted because history is a lot more complex, even within a 5-year-span from the last 10 years. Elementary school and middle school students were taught that history was that simple. Examples include:
- Civil War started because of slavery
- Herbert Hoover started the Great Depression
- Japanese Americans were sent to internment camps because of Pearl Harbor
All of these are true, but it’s not as simple as it seems. The Civil War was primarily about slavery, but there was a series of conflicts other than slavery that caused the war. Herbert Hoover didn’t start the depression. It was bound to happen because of a lack of regulation, excessive spending habits, and other mounting problems, all of which lead to the stock market falling. What Hoover is responsible for was that he didn’t do anything to relieve people from the depression. The government says it’s natural. As for the internment camps, it was more than just Pearl Harbor. For 50 years, Americans hated Japanese-Americans. They were scared of them for a long time. The Pearl Harbor thing was the last nail in the coffin.
I think the purpose of history in lower-level education was to teach people what happened and why it happened. The purpose wasn’t to teach them how complex it is.
nintendofan85
Good grief.
My long post where I delved into American policies over the years towards Japan, then Cuba, then Iran wasn't mean to oversimplify history, it's just hard to overstate ways in which United States foreign policy outraged people in each nation in the era literally from the mid-nineteenth century to the present day. With those things you mentioned, I will say some things:
-The Civil War was about slavery, yes. However, it's worth noting that if you look at the broader picture, slavery had been an issue dating all the way back to when Thomas Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence in 1776, and then when James Madison drafted the Constitution in 1787. Both men stated that all men were created equal, yet they both owned slaves, and we also know that this is quite hypocritical on Jefferson's part as, after nearly two whole centuries of rumors, it was finally confirmed in 1998 that Thomas Jefferson fathered half-black children with a slave of his, Sally Hemings, and because Hemings was their mother, they were born into slavery too. (Although, thankfully, Jefferson freed them in his will at the time of his death in 1826, which was around the time the rumors started) Nevertheless, every president from 1801 to 1850-from Thomas Jefferson to Zachary Taylor-had been a slaveowner, with the exceptions of John Quincy Adams, who was in office from 1825 to 1829, and Martin Van Buren, who was in office from 1837 to 1841. However, the North had practically been growing opposed to slavery, as the last northern state to abolish it was New Jersey, which abolished it in 1804, six decades before the Civil War, roughly. Abolitionist sentiment began growing in 1830s and that's when we begin to see the divide happen-it didn't help that when James K. Polk was in office, the Mexican-American War was fought from 1846 to 1848, and since the United States, we got massive amounts of territories from Mexico that made it unclear what the status of slavery would be (California became a state in 1850 when Millard Fillmore was in office, and it was admitted as a free state, which upset the balance that had been precarious ever since the Missouri Compromise had been passed by Congress when James Monroe was president in 1820). Then, the Missouri Compromise was effectively repealed in 1854 after Fillmore was succeeded in office by Franklin Pierce when the Kansas-Nebraska Act was passed by Congress with the heavy supporter of Illinois's Senator Stephen A. Douglas, and that in turn saw the rise of popular sovereignty as an idea, and this would cause the violence known as "Bleeding Kansas" all the way until the Civil War's outbreak in 1861 because of illegal voting from across lines from Missouri that caused Kansas to be voted in as a slave state (Nebraska's voters voted to be free). This was also compounded with the Supreme Court's awful ruling in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857) which was arguably the worst decision the court ever made, particularly seen in Chief Justice Roger B. Taney's majority opinion. After that, as tensions grew, Abraham Lincoln got elected president in the 1860 election while not even being on the ballot in the Southern states, leading to their secession, while outgoing President James Buchanan literally did nothing about it (which is why I consider Buchanan to be one of the worst presidents we've ever had, in fact, I had Buchanan at the bottom until just recently when he got surpassed by Donald Trump due to Trump's inept handling of the coronavirus).
-Herbert Hoover didn't cause the Great Depression, but he mishandled it. The Depression had been caused by the bubble that spurred the high economic growth in the 1920s, which started around 1920, the last year Woodrow Wilson was in office. Warren G. Harding got elected that year (Wilson wanted a third term, but doing so would go against the two-term precedent set by George Washington, and he was also massively unpopular as United States involvement in World War I wasn't exactly popular, and he consequently failed to get the Senate to pass the Treaty of Versailles, and he also had a stroke in late 1919) in a landslide due to the aforementioned unpopularity of the Wilson administration, although Harding was only in office for not even two and a half years as he died in office from a heart attack in 1923. That caused his vice president, Calvin Coolidge, to become president, and Coolidge was notably hands-off and very much lassez-faire about the economy. The 1920s boom was largely fueled by credit, to the point where people were even buying stocks on credit. After Warren G. Harding's landslide win in the 1920 election, and then Coolidge won a term in his own right, also in a landslide election victory, in the 1924 election, Herbert Hoover would go on to win an election victory of his own by a similar margin in 1928 because of the Republican Party's popularity from the good economic times, but less than a year later-and merely months after Hoover's inauguration-the 1929 stock market crash happened, and most of Hoover's strategy to handle the subsequent Great Depression that followed the crash-especially the fact that Congress still passed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, which is considered to have worsened the Depression as, while tariffs were passed on trading partners such as the United Kingdom, they in turn passed retaliatory tariffs on us, which, at the time Congress got it passed at the behest of Herbert Hoover in 1930, was about the last thing the United States needed. I easily considered the Smoot-Hawley tariff to be the worst economic legislation ever passed by Congress, although the Embargo Act of 1807 passed under Thomas Jefferson comes close in my mind, since Jefferson's legislation, aimed to hurt Britain and France while tensions built up in the lead-up to the War of 1812 (which would then happen under the presidency of Jefferson's successor, James Madison) only hurt the American economy. Anyways, Herbert Hoover's terrible economy caused him to lose re-election to Franklin D. Roosevelt in a landslide in 1932.
-Yes, unfortunately, long-standing resentment against Japanese Americans existed before Pearl Harbor and the beginning of war between the United States and Japan once US entry into World War II happened, but yes, they faced other judgment beforehand. The Supreme Court's poor decision in Ozawa v. United States (1922) and also the Immigration Act of 1924, passed by President Calvin Coolidge, were definitely inflammatory in this regard. What largely made Japanese American internment under Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry Truman so bad was that it was even naturalized Japanese Americans-those who had become United States citizens-who were also interned. That was very disgraceful, especially when you consider it was used as part of the Alien Enemies Act, a remnant of John Adams's infamous Alien and Sedition Acts he had Congress pass in 1798.
I will make this post purely based on emotion alone, so I will preface with that. The president will be re-elected because too many people cannot and refuse to walk a mile in anyone elses’ shoes. I am ashamed by the leadership of our country and my state, where the president claims riots are terrorism and the governor is making budget cuts to the tune of $209 million, which will mainly affect educators like me. Love this forum so I am leaving it at that so I don’t cause arguments or get banned. If you don’t speak up for what is right in this world, though, I am disappointed.
I can say that property destruction isn’t something I would do, and I don’t agree with innocent lives being affected, but isn’t this also comparable to war? I wouldn’t be for any innocent lives from any background being harmed and I know you feel the same, but many defend war but are so against a riot. My point, though, is to focus on the cause of riots. This is happening because there is inequality and injustice among people because of their race. People today and people up to a century ago have been fed up with injustice and respond this way. Wake up and consider the root of the problem.
AppleBitterCrumble
TBT Hoarder
it feels like we're living in a very bad movie rn.
at least Gen Z is making it hilarious, check trumps instagram comments if u wanna see the mean fairy comments lmao
also apparently someone stole an officers horse and was riding around on it
at least Gen Z is making it hilarious, check trumps instagram comments if u wanna see the mean fairy comments lmao
also apparently someone stole an officers horse and was riding around on it
I think the problem is too many people don’t want to be involved and stand up. All the best, though.
I've retracted what I said and I'd appreciate it if you could remove the quote from your post also.
I simply meant that many, many innocent peoples lives are being ruined here. People who very well may fight for the exact same cause these violent protestors do. I cannot, and will not, support them.
Then we agree it is unfortunate that so many businesses are being affected by this during Covid especially. I do hope that means people stop saying things like “I will run over any protester in the road” on social media. There is nothing too extremely wrong with your message and don’t see why it would need to be removed. I agree to an extent, but what needs to be highlighted is that the focus is on the property destruction over people being tired of injustice. Thank you for offering your views.
Edit: the post I replied to was focused on businesses and people being harmed (which is terrible) but failing to realize the root of them problem here.
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nintendofan85
Good grief.
Property destruction is something I can't support either, although it's the taking of people's lives that I find worse, especially because to me, it defeats the point of how George Floyd was unjustly taken from this earth. But rioting definitely isn't the same thing as terrorism-it would be a whole other matter if something like 9/11 was happening again, or even an incident akin to the Oklahoma City bombings that happened back in 1995.
However, police brutality, especially in light of Floyd's death, definitely needs to be addressed, and if we focus too heavily on the rioting, we ignore the whole reason this started in the first place. (Granted, and anyone can feel to disagree with me, but I do feel like there are some people who are rioting just because they see this matter as an excuse to do so, not so much because they actually care about how George Floyd died, especially when you consider that a lot of people have gotten stir crazy with coronavirus-related quarantine) One problem about Floyd's death is that while protests and riots weren't as widespread with past incidents of police brutality, especially against African Americans (by widespread I mean literally enveloping the whole country), this has been a problem the United States has had since at least the 1960s, if not earlier. It was only five to six years ago-in 2014 and 2015, respectively-that riots happened first in Ferguson, Missouri, and then in Baltimore, Maryland, over the deaths of Michael Brown and then Freddie Gray, both police-related. Other major riots happened as well in the past, of course, related to police brutality-the 1992 Los Angeles riots, over the beating of Rodney King by the LAPD just a year earlier and how they were acquitted in state court in California prompted them. There were, of course, the Watts riots that were also in Los Angeles in 1965, and numerous riots in 1967 and 1968 occurred with the Long Hot Summer of 1967 and the response to Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination. It was so bad that the administration of Lyndon B. Johnson created the Kerner Commission to investigate issues affecting African Americans and Latino Americans.
I can absolutely agree with you that the focus needs to be injustice stemming from what should be our leaders and protectors. It has taken me a lot of time over my 30 years of life to realize the privilege I was born into that some fight to have since early life. I can only hope one day the world can change.
-Apples-
Apple Imperialist
Now remember to keep this in mind, because this is important about riots and protests.
Property (like national monuments, stores etc.) are no more important than, and not as important as, human lives or human rights. Would you rather have white nationalists get their pride back, or would you rather have extensive property damage to get politicians to make racial profiling a federal crime for police officers? You can see that people are more important than property, and human rights are more important. However, it is not worth vandalizing other property over the death of one person or for the sake of an election. This is bad for the economy, and even bad for others. This is why I sternly opposed the 2016 election protests. In addition, the vandalism and assault towards others from the latest riots isn’t justice for George Floyd. It’s tainting his name and ruining the BLM protests.
The bottom line, people are more important than property, but they shouldn’t destroy property or assault others to avenge people.
Property (like national monuments, stores etc.) are no more important than, and not as important as, human lives or human rights. Would you rather have white nationalists get their pride back, or would you rather have extensive property damage to get politicians to make racial profiling a federal crime for police officers? You can see that people are more important than property, and human rights are more important. However, it is not worth vandalizing other property over the death of one person or for the sake of an election. This is bad for the economy, and even bad for others. This is why I sternly opposed the 2016 election protests. In addition, the vandalism and assault towards others from the latest riots isn’t justice for George Floyd. It’s tainting his name and ruining the BLM protests.
The bottom line, people are more important than property, but they shouldn’t destroy property or assault others to avenge people.
Agree that it isn’t worth destroying property over, but I have to think about why people would do so. It is sad that people need to resort to doing so to feel heard and validated. People will always be more important than property, so my biggest wish is that people would elect true leaders that would actually stand up for inequality among people.
thatveryawkwardmayor
yikes!
this country is literally on fire and all trump had to do is show some empathy. im sickened and disgusted and im scared for the future. im scared that black people will further be murdered and imprisoned under this military state. i fear that my family and other black people in the us may have to seek political asylum.
toadsworthy
Tangsworthy
Property and economy shouldn't even be the discussion right now. You can be upset about unnecessary violence and small business destruction yeah, but first and foremost you need to acknowledge the injustice that happened to George Floyd and how that one example of racism is rampant throughout so many parts of our government and infrastructure in so many ways. You need to acknowledge why these riots and protests happened. It is a privilege to even have that mindset when so many black people have to live in fear of so many other things. Peaceful protest and other campaigns fell on deaf ears for too long. I think this should be a wake up call on humanity, justice, and so many other moral things that we need to address before any sort of economical or lots of other issues can even begin to be addressed.
I also used to just go along with what my parents taught me, or to think that police and government should be the leading force. However I think there is such a corrupt underbelly about it that intervention outside of the "laws" is necessary. MLK opposed laws up and down, and if it wasn't for that ethical push we wouldn't have gotten the slight ground for black people that we would have today. I too wish that violence on innocent people and small businesses was minimized, but I absolutely understand why this has happened and i support that movement towards true equality and justice for black people way more. Just like you can support a cause for a war knowing innocent people will get lost due to negligence, "bad apples", and the nature of things.
I also used to just go along with what my parents taught me, or to think that police and government should be the leading force. However I think there is such a corrupt underbelly about it that intervention outside of the "laws" is necessary. MLK opposed laws up and down, and if it wasn't for that ethical push we wouldn't have gotten the slight ground for black people that we would have today. I too wish that violence on innocent people and small businesses was minimized, but I absolutely understand why this has happened and i support that movement towards true equality and justice for black people way more. Just like you can support a cause for a war knowing innocent people will get lost due to negligence, "bad apples", and the nature of things.
toadsworthy
Tangsworthy
Also America has its perks... however I believe Donald Trump is a literal scum of the Earth and setting us back years. He is first and foremost a terrible human being, that I would never want to interact with, let alone run my country. It sucks that that is the face of my country and what people judge us off of, but there is so much more to love about America that people are very quick to forget and chock up our image to instances like this.
A number of people are stating that they can no longer get groceries or medicine due to groceries and pharmacies being destroyed from the riots or it is far too dangerous to even go outside. It was already difficult enough to get said things due to the pandemic. Just sayin' that there is more than just "destroying buildings" to the story.
Also, innocent people are losing their jobs due to places they worked being destroyed.
Also, innocent people are losing their jobs due to places they worked being destroyed.
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