do you consider yourself a feminist?

[TaliZorah]

Ew. No.

Long story short: It's useless.
Longer story than that: It focuses on mundane subjects that don't even apply to the western world.
It shames men for being men and makes real women look like prissy, delicate flowers.

It's laughable, foolish and very shortsighted.

 

[blossum]

It's useless... is it useless to the 13.5 million girls who get married every year before they turn 18? Is it useless to the 62 million girls currently not in education? I know it doesn't have the best connotations but you need to understand majority of feminists actually do want THIS particular change. It's just the media that brands them as focusing on "lesser important" issues. Like those issues where principals send home girls for wearing spaghetti straps, yes, unfair, yes, an issue, but there's nothing wrong with focusing on first world issues whilst battling futures for all these girls and boys who would never even dream of having those problems. I'm not trying to pick on you but I just really wanted to point out that. The movement has affected many lives for the utmost better.

 

[TaliZorah]

It's useless... is it useless to the 13.5 million girls who get married every year before they turn 18? Is it useless to the 62 million girls currently not in education? I know it doesn't have the best connotations but you need to understand majority of feminists actually do want THIS particular change. It's just the media that brands them as focusing on "lesser important" issues. Like those issues where principals send home girls for wearing spaghetti straps, yes, unfair, yes, an issue, but there's nothing wrong with focusing on first world issues whilst battling futures for all these girls and boys who would never even dream of having those problems. I'm not trying to pick on you but I just really wanted to point out that. The movement has affected many lives for the utmost better.

13.5 million women who get married before 18? Are you talking about the middle east? Because feminism, REAL FEMINISM, is definitely needed in the middle east. Those women are stoned to death based on rumors that they slept with another man. A RUMOR. It is morbid. They are treated like cattle, sold off and like you said, married long before 18. However, that does NOT apply to America. Feminism is not needed for 1st world countries. Period.

62 million women not in education? Again, are we talking about America or the middle east? Re-read my original statement, please. I am talking about western civilization.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. You might stand for something else in terms of group definition, but we, the common people, can only go off what we see. We see men being treated unfairly. We see women talking about fake wage gaps. We see women talking about rape like it's an insult rather than a life-changing act. These are the negative things we see and we must go forward with it. These are NEGATIVE effects that common people see. Do you really want to be associated with a group that spews hatred?

Your comment about girls going home because of spaghetti straps.
It is called prepping them for real life. You really think walking into a board meeting room in a spaghetti strap tank top is going to fly with your boss? No. You think men wearing pajama pants walking into that same board meeting is gonna fly? No. It goes both ways. School dress code is designed to implement the future rules of possible jobs and careers. School dress code is regulated to keep children from getting away with anything they want. THAT is the true reason for dress code. NOT because they think some boy is going to stare at a women's shoulder.

The movement in itself has affected women in the late 1800s and early 1900s all the way up to even the 90s with second wave feminism. That's where it's history ends. That is where men and women became equal. Equal pay, equal share and equal social status. There is absolutely NO need for it here in America.

 

[blossum]

13.5 million women who get married before 18? Are you talking about the middle east? Because feminism, REAL FEMINISM, is definitely needed in the middle east.

The 13.5 million is from the UNFPA 2010 report, which showed that in total it was 52 million in rural areas to 16 mil in urban areas.
Absolutely, that is what I'm saying. I thought you meant you didn't think it was necessary here so I was a bit shocked.

However, that does NOT apply to America. Feminism is not needed for 1st world countries. Period.

Yes, the inhumane treatment has no words for it, but I don't understand the extreme hatred for first world women's rights. I'll talk about that further down.

62 million women not in education? Again, are we talking about America or the middle east? Re-read my original statement, please. I am talking about western civilization.

Apologies, error on my behalf. What I was trying to portray was that people in third world countries need support from first world, which I misinterpreted from you.

We see men being treated unfairly. We see women talking about fake wage gaps. We see women talking about rape like it's an insult rather than a life-changing act. These are the negative things we see and we must go forward with it. These are NEGATIVE effects that common people see. Do you really want to be associated with a group that spews hatred?

Since men, too, are treated unfairly, shouldn't that mean that feminism should be valid? To fix up inequality regarding double standards and modest lies.
Of course not, but these minority can't represent the whole movement when its literal aim is to be equal. Extremists unfortunately are falsely a huge representation of the community. But there is always a radical side to any group? Usually this is why people prefer being "egalitarian". I know people don't want to be associated with it but it's up to us to reestablish the message we want to give, not let the media define us, or when your friends shame it without knowing what lies beyond the surface.
What are we supposed to do when rape IS a life-changing act? Rape still exists in first world countries, shouldn't awareness and prevention be taught here too?

Your comment about girls going home because of spaghetti straps.

Whilst I do agree that rules are made to be followed, my example was supposed to be for those actual cases where girls have been sent home strictly unfairly. I believe when breaking the rules they must deal with those consequences. But when girls are sent home solely because it makes grown men uncomfortable, I believe that must be fixed.

Equal pay, equal share and equal social status. There is absolutely NO need for it here in America.

Women technically have as many rights as men, and that was an amazing step which should have been achieved quicker.
I know this is super vague but, what about those stereotypes that women are amenable, frail and dandy, so are then less likely to be picked for promotion and are nine times more likely to do childcare than men? Don't we need feminism to fix these things in the first world? I know they're not as extreme as in the third world.

 

[windloft]

i prefer to not label myself with anything that might attract bad attention. i believe that everybody deserves equality, regardless of gender or orientation or race.

 

[Legendary Sandwich]

This video goes out to everyone still complaining about the "wage gap".

'nuff said.

 

[visibleghost]

Ew. No.

Long story short: It's useless.
Longer story than that: It focuses on mundane subjects that don't even apply to the western world.
It shames men for being men and makes real women look like prissy, delicate flowers.

It's laughable, foolish and very shortsighted.

what ant being a man is shamed w feminsim

 

[Legendary Sandwich]

Let me just break this down to see if I've got this right from people harping on Egalitarianism.

I might get a bit heavy on this, so if you don't want to read, do not click the spoiler.

Spoiler

Legendary Sandwich is a PROUD Egalitarian!

"no i'm not a feminist but i support equality for both genders" so... you're a feminist.

No. I'm an Egalitarian/Philanthropist/Humanist. I honestly cannot tolerate high horse Feminists 'nor the Third Wave banner they champion because of this entitled mentality of 'Well, if you're for equality and basic human rights, then obviously you're a feminist', as if Feminism were the ONLY pathway to salvation and has a monopoly on every human rights movement and or philosophy!

You ever wonder why people don't take Feminism seriously? This is it right here.

Way to force your ideology and agenda onto others. Real kind of you.

im a feminist 100%
egalitarians are rly manky tbh thats all i gotta say

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU SO I'M GOING TO INSULT YOU.

Absolutely, all this "i'm an egalitarian!" stuff is crap. All movements have their loud extremists, but it doesn't change what the movement is about.

I've yet to meet any true Egalitarian extremists. Our camp is very self-policing and very much in solidarity when it comes to our principles and philosophy. Every argument and debate I've ever had with my fellow Egal Pals have been pleasant, clean, and free from baseless conjecture.

I think people can be free to say that they are "egalitarian", since it technically exists too.. but their values are.. literally shared with feminism, and they only prefer it simply because of the radical undertones. I remember seeing a thread about it and it enlightened me:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/35pu2o

"Egalitarianism is a toothless philosophy when it comes to exacting any real change.
It sounds really good to say you want equal rights for everyone. I mean, who doesn't? But you have to be more specific. How is inequality manifested in our society? What are the sources of that inequality? What, specifically, can we do to change those things? How are we going to accomplish that?

It's all well and good to say you want everyone to be equal, but until you isolate specific problems and address them, you're not going to get much accomplished. Feminists have isolated the specific problem of female oppression under a patriarchal society, and they believe working to end that oppression will lead to equality of the sexes. You may agree or disagree with that, but that's what feminism is.

I mean, by "egalitarian" logic, we shouldn't have any movements that aim to help one specific social group. No black rights movements, no LGBT movements, no advocates for children or the elderly. After all, we ALL have problems. Shouldn't we be working to help EVERYONE?"

And

"The term "egalitarian" in the context of gender relations has largely been co-opted by people who want to carry the banner of gender equality without actually acknowledging that women are an oppressed class. Instead, they want to pretend that men and women are oppressed totally equally, which just isn't true. Yes, there are ways in which traditional gender roles are damaging to men, but they are not systematically denied access to social, economic, and political power as a result.

My favorite is this quote right here because they went and got the definition of Egalitarianism from a FEMINIST REDDIT!

I can't even. I just cannot even.

Also, "technically" exists?

Egalitarianism has been a philosophy and political movement since Ancient China, where the earliest example of Egalitarianism was recorded to help farmers get more wages. It was an economic movement that was egalitarian in nature.

The earliest known act of Feminism was recorded in I believe France, in a time period after the Italian Renaissance.

Egalitarianism has been around way before Feminism, it has been a social philosophy that has influenced law, religion, the military, economics, and more since the times of ancient empires and dynasties. To say people prefer it because of "less radical" undertones, or that it's a "toothless" philosophy is actually genuinely insulting to a practice and view point that's been around for centuries.

Next time, try using Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism

Though, take note. People have edited the article to try and discredit it.

Observe this little piece here:

"Equalist is how many describe themselves since circa 1996, mostly outside the US who get distanced from the mainstream feminist movement, often citing extreme views as reason of not calling themselves feminist. In the western world, in both UK and US it's still just a small percentage of people declaring themselves as equalists, but the numbers are growing as scientists like research scientist Laura Waters[22] and feminists join equalist groups due to mishandled cases and negative opinion about the main feminist movement. Christina Hoff Sommers is sometimes described as an equalist although she didn't call herself that on record."

See that? That's garbage. Be on the look out for stuff like that.

Peace!

 

[visibleghost]

lol chill out

the thing u are talking abt seems coolio i guess ?? i have no problem w/ wanting to have equality for everyone hahahhh

my main problem w/ the ppl who call themselves that is that most ive spoken to are super anti feminism or working for gender ewuality. maybe ive just met crap ppl but those ive spoken w anout it seem to just want All Those Darn Women to stfu because theyre offended that feminism mainly focuses on women and not men .,

 

[Legendary Sandwich]

maybe ive just met crap ppl but those ive spoken w anout it seem to just want All Those Darn Women to stfu because theyre offended that feminism mainly focuses on women and not men .,

Doesn't that make you raise an important question?

How can a movement be about true equality when it focuses more on women than men and not both equally?

Truth be told I am Anti-Feminist for this reason. I don't care if you're fighting for the advancement of women, by all means, do so. But don't try and market it as some all encompassing umbrella of "equal rights for everyone". To me that seems dishonest.

 

[visibleghost]

feminism focuses on women because women face oppression based on gender
men are sufferinh from gender roles too but they arent oppressed and they dont have the same issues as women do.

to me it kinda sounds like u think it is equality to, like if Bert have 50 oranges and Dave has 10 it is equal to give them 5 extra iranges each, so Bert will have 55 and Dave will have 15. that doesnt sound very equal to me.

there are many different types of feminism i guess but i'd say that a lot of feminists think that issues that men have are very important as well.

 

[EpicGamer12]

i am in support of equality for bananas

 

[Legendary Sandwich]

feminism focuses on women because women face oppression based on gender
men are sufferinh from gender roles too but they arent oppressed and they dont have the same issues as women do.

to me it kinda sounds like u think it is equality to, like if Bert have 50 oranges and Dave has 10 it is equal to give them 5 extra iranges each, so Bert will have 55 and Dave will have 15. that doesnt sound very equal to me.

there are many different types of feminism i guess but i'd say that a lot of feminists think that issues that men have are very important as well.

In what ways are women oppressed in First World Countries?

 

[visibleghost]

In what ways are women oppressed in First World Countries?

rape culture
the general attitude that girls are worse than boys
beauty stuffs
catcalling
a ton of ppl say sexist ****
violence against women
etc idk im tired i just thought of some

 

[RibbonFinale]

In a way, yes. I'm all for equality. That's it. I don't side with some of the more intense feminists at all. I don't believe all men are pigs either. I've spoken to many feminists who think the same way and are saddened by how the world sees them now due to the select few who ruined their image.

 

[Legendary Sandwich]

rape culture
the general attitude that girls are worse than boys
beauty stuffs
catcalling
a ton of ppl say sexist ****
violence against women
etc idk im tired i just thought of some

Well, I think I've seen enough. Thank you for your time and energy.

 

[Miii]

I'm an egalitarian. I think that everyone should have the same set of rights as far as the law is concerned (which is already the case in America, where I live), and that those rights should be applied in the same manner for everyone, again, as far as the law is concerned, regardless of race, gender, religion or special snowflake status (which America needs to work on).

As it stands now, men lose the majority of custody and alimony cases. Men are required to pay child support to their children's mother if she pushes for it, and they'll go to jail if they can't afford to pay for it, despite the fact that women have an array of non-surgical birth control methods available to them to prevent pregnancy (other than abstinence), where men have one non-surgical means of preventing pregnancy. Men receive lengthier and harsher prison sentences for committing the exact same crime as women. Men are far less likely to have a domestic violence report taken seriously. A man is often expected to restrain a women, rather than fight back if she's attempting to assault him, and men are more often the victims of assault to begin with.

On a less serious, more social/ cultural note, women can make generalizations about men, regardless of how hateful or inaccurate they are (insert crazy feminist comments here) without being called sexist, without risking losing their jobs and without risking a news article or some other form of backlash from the media, should they happen to hear about it. Women are now more likely to be hired for jobs in career fields where men tend to dominate because of the new importance being placed on "diversity and inclusion". Lastly, again on a less serious note, women don't get flack for not wanting to date a fat neckbeard, where men do for not wanting to date fat women.

Essentially, I'm not a feminist because I don't believe that men have an ideal set of rights that we need to adjust women's rights to match or be equal to. In fact, I think women benefit in some areas at the expense of men (alimony, custody and child support). I think women in America need to quite whining about what victims they are, and realize just how good they have it.

 

[Aronthaer]

No, I'm not. The main reason is that I don't like labels, specifically labels relating to an ideaology (though I do still hesitate to call myself an atheist sometimes, even though it isn't an ideology). Also, I do tend to disagree with a lot of things that many feminists say. I am all for equality of the sexes (and by that I mean equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome), but I honestly believe that, for the most part, we've reached that goal in the west. Legally, men and women are equal in the west (and yes, it is illegal to pay women less simply for being women, and the pay gap is actually because of personal job choice, not discrimination). Also, a lot of things feminists bring up aren't gendered issues. As a female, I have never, in my life, been discriminated against because of my gender, or at all really. I know anecdotal evidence isn't really worth that much, but I thought I should still point it out.

I don't call myself an anti-feminist or an MRA either though. I don't have a problem with feminism as a whole, or even feminists. I've got friends who are feminists who are really nice, and I've been trying lately not to lump all feminists together. Like people on this thread have already said, not all feminists are man-haters or radicals, and I do agree with feminism in its simplest form. I just have problems with a lot of things that most feminists bring up, and I don't feel comfortable being associated with the movement.

I literally can't explain my stance any better than this.

 

[Blythetastic]

Yes, I am a feminist. It does not mean I hate men or look down on them. It means I believe in equal rights (and pay) for women and men.

 

[Jamborenium]

nope I'm non-feminist female, I just hate what feminism has become these days TBH