"It's alright, it's just a fantasy and not real life" (and similar stuff)

[visibleghost]

please note: don't make this entirely about sex or whatever. there have been similar threads in the past that have been locked because they became too child unfriendly, so like, pls don't do that . n this is not a discussion thread for kinks or whatever so!! yeh

SOo!! i've seen this argument a lot ("it's just a fantasy", "it's not like it actually does anything", "it's not real life", "it doesn't hurt anyone" etc) about things seen as morally wrong or socially unacceptable being talked about on the internet.
Like, people who ship abusive relationships might say that it's okay to ship them because it's not real life, the fact that they ship the abusive ship doesn't mean that they accept real life abuse.
Their idea is that since it isn't real and they aren't actually hurting anyone it's okay for them to do whatever they're doing, even if it might be socially frowned upon.


Some things i've personally seen this argument being used for are:
shipping (real life ships, abusive ships, paedophilic ships, incest ships)
kinks (especially dd/lg kinda stuff and sexist stuff like degrading women)
writing or drawings
roleplaying

so basically!! do you people think that the fact that it's not actually real or whatever makes it okay?
what do you think about it?

if anyone is confused by what i mean i'm sorry!! please ask about it and i'll try to explain a bit more.

my opinion is that it obviously isn't as bad to support fictional abuse as it is to support real life abuse but that it still doesn't make it totally great and perfect. i don't care a ton but at the same time some of these things can make me really uncomfortable.
for example i personally don't think it's okay to ever sexualize children, but of course it is less bad to draw a naked kid than to molest real life children. i think that the sexualization can be harmful even though it isn't directly affecting kids. aaaa i'll explain more of someone else posts but bbbbbasically that's my thoughts on the issue!!

 

[Bowie]

I feel like the distinction between fantasy and reality makes a big difference. If we're not talking about kinks, I feel like fiction is art, and art should be 100% free and uncensored. If your fiction includes graphic violence, it includes graphic violence. You shouldn't have to limit yourself because some people might be "triggered" by it. Don't like it? Don't look. It's a personal choice whether you want any part in such things. It doesn't have any impact on you otherwise.

So, in fiction, I think it's 100% fine and people should be allowed to write and draw what they want. When it comes down to sex and kinks, it's a little more complex. As someone who has a number of fetishes (some of which aren't even possible in real life circumstances), I think that it's okay. Again, it can be a kind of art form. One of my most favourite artists on the Internet is a fetish artist, and their work is amazing. They've built up an audience through their work, and discovered new ways of doing what they do, and making what they make. It's a good thing. Nothing negative can come out of it.

I personally feel like, as long as everything is 100% fantasy and isn't harming anyone in the process, it's fine. That's just my personal stance on it. I completely agree with you when you say it's better for someone to draw children than it would be to molest real children, but at the same time I do find it very disturbing, and it's not something I'd wanna get involved with.

It's relative, isn't it? Depends on exactly what the medium is and what it entails. 99% of the time, I'm cool with it.

 

[seliph]

Yeah definitely not.

Shipping pedophilia and incest, namely when relating to anime or manga, has been proven to directly contributes to the whole lolicon/shotacon "culture" (probably not the right word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment) in Japan and predators use these ships and the gross art associated with it to con their victims into thinking it's okay. "See, it's in a drawing, it's in a book, so it's okay." Not to mention it's just.... ****ing nasty? Like honestly how can you look at an adult and a child, or two brothers and go "Hell yeah I wanna see their mouths slam against each other" or even worse, anything sexual? How?

Also, honestly, it still says a lot about you if you see any sort of abuse, even in fictional work, and say "well it's okay because it isn't real". A lot of the time the excuse is "Well I imagine it in a setting where they've worked it out" but really? Do you think that can just happen? If actual abuse victims get back with their abuser, it's usually out of fear and manipulation. Your "they made up" fantasy is just that, a fantasy, and to me and literally any other abuse victim it really looks like you're ignoring actual abuse victims in favour of... wanting to see two made up characters banging probably because of something really trivial like "well they're both hot boys XD". Whether you "ship them as abusive" or not, it still sends the idea to abuse survivors that you think abusive relationships are a-okay and even romantic. I'm sure that last point goes to incest/pedophilia victims as well.

Oh yeah as for kinks if you have a r*pe kink, you're pretty damn nasty and I don't even want you looking in my general direction. Hell I don't even want you breathing the same air.

 

[boujee]

Ha.
Reminds me of the trigger thread and how y'all opinions differ when it comes to fantasy when I honestly thought some people who are trigger would be uncomfortable with what you listed but it's suddenly "it's not hurting anyone lol" to "to should be considerate of other people feelings". I don't really get that mindset.

I usually just laugh because it's contradictory mindsets that make it laughable. Most are just yaoi tards who fetishize gay people but would also get defensive when a man is head over heels for a fictional female character. There's really never anything beautiful about fetish art of all kinds tbh. Man and a child? Nah. Brother and brother? Nah. If I don't find it beautiful in real life I wouldn't find it interesting in fantasy. Usually artist who would convey that scenario in their writing is intended to make the reader/viewer uncomfortable but it's usually people who can't really convey what's wrong or right and thus you get a weirdo. And from there, I make fun. It's a pity really.

 

[visibleghost]

Yeah definitely not.

Shipping pedophilia and incest, namely when relating to anime or manga, has been proven to directly contributes to the whole lolicon/shotacon "culture" (probably not the right word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment) in Japan and predators use these ships and the gross art associated with it to con their victims into thinking it's okay. "See, it's in a drawing, it's in a book, so it's okay." Not to mention it's just.... ****ing nasty? Like honestly how can you look at an adult and a child, or two brothers and go "Hell yeah I wanna see their mouths slam against each other" or even worse, anything sexual? How?

Also, honestly, it still says a lot about you if you see any sort of abuse, even in fictional work, and say "well it's okay because it isn't real". A lot of the time the excuse is "Well I imagine it in a setting where they've worked it out" but really? Do you think that can just happen? If actual abuse victims get back with their abuser, it's usually out of fear and manipulation. Your "they made up" fantasy is just that, a fantasy, and to me and literally any other abuse victim it really looks like you're ignoring actual abuse victims in favour of... wanting to see two made up characters banging probably because of something really trivial like "well they're both hot boys XD". Whether you "ship them as abusive" or not, it still sends the idea to abuse survivors that you think abusive relationships are a-okay and even romantic. I'm sure that last point goes to incest/pedophilia victims as well.

yeah i get what you mean and i agree.

things that directly contribute to real life abuse or the acceptance of it are obviously not okay, and things that make people more indifferent to real life abuse are also really wrong. i understand that people can like ships that are abusive for the things that aren't the abuse (like personality matches or stuff) but imo that doesn't excuse or remove the fact that it's abusive and that it's better to just, kinda not do that.,.

there are a lot of other things to ship if you're that into shipping, but it's not cool to make abuse seem romantic or like a quirky thing.

for me, personally, with kinks and ships that play on non consensual stuff i mean... i understand that these people often don't mean any harm, and i understand that most of them would never accept real life abuse or anything. i get that. but i still think they can be harmful and disrespectful to victims of it, especially when victims are told to "get over it because it isn't actually real life so you shouldn't be upset." (like, you know, /r/rape used to be the subreddit for rape kinks instead of actual support for abuse victims ha ha ha :'D)

 

[wassop]

i don't really agree with incestual, pedophillic , or abusive ships . real life ships can be okay because it usually doesn't hurt that person unless it does bother them , and i guess one could say abusive somewhat is more tolerable than incestual or pedophillic but if that is attractive to someone there has to be something unconsciously or psychologically there that reflects on real life . if they find these thoughts okay in the present it could eventually manifest in real life or reveal something that may have happened to them in the past that needs to be counseled . i also think it could really hurt someone who has actually been through a traumatic experience like this that is almost always against their will (in some cases it can be mutual but still wrong like adult-teen relationships , but that's a very grey subject as each case is different like a 19 and 17 year old for example) to see it fetishized . i don't know , obviously my opinion is not important and i'm just someone on the internet but this is how i see it .

 

[Jamborenium]

I draw gore but that doesn't mean I support murder/torture :I

 

[debinoresu]

i definitely feel a lot more gray on fictional matters than i do with real murder or abuse. i think you should get involved and try to stop murder/real abuse but when it comes to fictional stuff its really only emotional and its easily avoidable for you personally if it makes you uncomfortable.

my whole opinion on whether or not its "okay" is basically- people are gonna do what they want with their lives whether i like it or not. if i think something is "okay" thats for my own personal tailoring to my life. i just find it frustrating to try to delegate other peoples lives based on what you personally thing is "okay" and it just causes more grief than solution. hence why i dont really think it matters that much. i can easily just avoid people i dont like. its not a big deal. i think nothing fictional is objectively bad, i suppose. if youre hurt by something fictional, unless people are specifically seeking you out to torment with it, its really a matter of allowing yourself to take whatever it is personally. i used to take way too much stuff personally and im getting better about it and life is a lot more enjoyable when i acknowledge how subjective these things are and how its not all about me or my feelings.

 

[Dogemon]

I draw gore but that doesn't mean I support murder/torture :I

Gore is not what is being really discussed though. Gore itself has no morality to it? Atleast to me.

 

[boujee]

I draw gore but that doesn't mean I support murder/torture :I

Do you draw characters with the same "Uguu" face while their guts are spilling out and they're doing a double peace hand sign?

 

[N a t]

I dunno how I honestly feel about it. I'm kind of 50/50. It shouldn't be okay to like incest, and pedophilia, and other things that are considered taboo. But, at the same time, I'd be glad that the majority are kind of "closet" about it. Not actually doing it. Like, ew, there's pedophilic artwork. But hopefully, the artist is using that as an outlet rather than actually acting out their pedophilic fantasies. And there's that awful thing that we all have, the opinion. And based on your culture, what's morally right or wrong can differ. Even if it's not a huge difference. I guess an example of this would be the age of consent in a lot of different places. I think it's weird to date someone way older than you, at least a young age. But in some places you have children marrying adults, and they think it's okay...

 

[seliph]

Do you draw characters with the same "Uguu" face while their guts are spilling out and they're doing a double peace hand sign?

You forgot the pastel undercut

It shouldn't be okay to like incest, and pedophilia, and other things that are considered taboo.

I thought this said "should" I almost threw a chair out the window omg

 

[Bowie]

I draw gore but that doesn't mean I support murder/torture :I

Any chance you could show me? I'm not into gore or anything, but I had no idea you were an artist!

 

[Jamborenium]

Do you draw characters with the same "Uguu" face while their guts are spilling out and they're doing a double peace hand sign?

You bet your sweet ass I do

j/k

 

[boujee]

You bet your sweet ass I do

j/k

Oh cool
Are you that one artist who keeps disappearing because tbt just isn't the same anymore? I swear I remember seeing a artist on here with that username who was into digimon

 

[Jamborenium]

yes I am, I'm back because AC got a new update and it inspired me to come back, even though I'm hated but ah well, why should I give a crap about what people think anyways?

 

[boujee]

I dunno how I honestly feel about it. I'm kind of 50/50. It shouldn't be okay to like incest, and pedophilia, and other things that are considered taboo. But, at the same time, I'd be glad that the majority are kind of "closet" about it. Not actually doing it. Like, ew, there's pedophilic artwork. But hopefully, the artist is using that as an outlet rather than actually acting out their pedophilic fantasies. And there's that awful thing that we all have, the opinion. And based on your culture, what's morally right or wrong can differ. Even if it's not a huge difference. I guess an example of this would be the age of consent in a lot of different places. I think it's weird to date someone way older than you, at least a young age. But in s
some places you have children marrying adults, and they think it's okay...

True, but I usually thought most people cringe at that type of behavior and feel bad for the kid who has to marry adult since they're not mentally capable and that sort of thing is usually set on about religion tbh.
It is true that what's morally right for some people can be right or wrong. But I just tend to feel bad for people who think that way since it's usually just someone who either had some type of bad experience and invest those internal feelings into their drawing/writing(but it makes sense) then those who just *** on a concept and think it's art.

 

[visibleghost]

-snip-

i think i understand what you mean and why you might think the way you do. like, thought crime shouldn't be a thing or whatever, and people are allowed to have different fantasies and things like that.
but at the same time people don't have to accept it. like, as you said it's kinda rly disturbing to see people drawing naked children and you'd rather not get involved w/ that. sexualizing children (even if they are fictional) is creepy, pedophilic and not socially accepted. and i think that can be said about other things than just child sexual abuse, it can be about, like idk bestiality or murdering ppl.

but ye it's relative!! like, there are some big differences between someone writing a regular crime story with murder in it, and someone writing a story about murdering in a way that makes it seem okay, fun or like a great fantasy or something. like, the way people portray stuff can make a difference too

Ha.
Reminds me of the trigger thread and how y'all opinions differ when it comes to fantasy when I honestly thought some people who are trigger would be uncomfortable with what you listed but it's suddenly "it's not hurting anyone lol" to "to should be considerate of other people feelings". I don't really get that mindset.

I usually just laugh because it's contradictory mindsets that make it laughable. Most are just yaoi tards who fetishize gay people but would also get defensive when a man is head over heels for a fictional female character. There's really never anything beautiful about fetish art of all kinds tbh. Man and a child? Nah. Brother and brother? Nah. If I don't find it beautiful in real life I wouldn't find it interesting in fantasy. Usually artist who would convey that scenario in their writing is intended to make the reader/viewer uncomfortable but it's usually people who can't really convey what's wrong or right and thus you get a weirdo. And from there, I make fun. It's a pity really.

i think the quote i bolded is interesting, because even though many people claim that they don't like or support [whatever it is they are defending w/ the "it's just a fantasy"-thing], the fact that they are interested in it in fiction is a bit of, like, a red flag to me.
i'm not saying that people who enjoy incest ships would love to have a relationship with a family member, but it's kind of like.... a step closer to being cool with incest...

i don't really agree with incestual, pedophillic , or abusive ships . real life ships can be okay because it usually doesn't hurt that person unless it does bother them , and i guess one could say abusive somewhat is more tolerable than incestual or pedophillic but if that is attractive to someone there has to be something unconsciously or psychologically there that reflects on real life . if they find these thoughts okay in the present it could eventually manifest in real life or reveal something that may have happened to them in the past that needs to be counseled . i also think it could really hurt someone who has actually been through a traumatic experience like this that is almost always against their will (in some cases it can be mutual but still wrong like adult-teen relationships , but that's a very grey subject as each case is different like a 19 and 17 year old for example) to see it fetishized . i don't know , obviously my opinion is not important and i'm just someone on the internet but this is how i see it .

i really agree with the thing i bolded about being ok w/ it in fiction might make them be more okay w/ it irl. that's definitely something that can happen and it's not really super cool at all.
and yeah there are plenty of people who use these kinds of things to cope with past trauma and that's kinda of a :I issue to me because i believe that it can often be very unhealthy coping methods. and it still doesn't make it totally fine just because it is coping imo.

and with the stuff about hurting real victims of it, yeah. people seem to think that victims of whatever they're supporting shouldn't be offended or upset because it's not real life, but that's not really how it works. of course abuse victims can get upset when people support fictional abuse.

 

[-Apples-]

yes I am, I'm back because AC got a new update and it inspired me to come back, even though I'm hated but ah well, why should I give a crap about what people think anyways?

To make you feel better, I never hated you. I had no conflict with you. I'm glad that you're back. Even I am back, and I'm here for the update (but I returned like three months ago).

 

[visibleghost]

I draw gore but that doesn't mean I support murder/torture :I

yeah i get that. i think gore is a bit different tho? like, it's a bit not totally great to think it's fine to hurt other people in gore, but a lot of gore drawings are just, like, someone having their guts spill out with no other context or whatever? idk but to me it seems like it's a bit different than shipping abusive ships or whatever where it could actually hurt people. idk if this made sense aaaaa