Antonio
✦ Any Pronouns ✦
Plus it would take ALOT of electors to flip to give trump the lead especially if biden wins Georgia.
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Joe Biden is the 46th president of the United States
- Thread starter Antonio
- Start date
I'm so glad that the vile man was defeated. I only wish it would have been by a much wider margin. Instead we got a high turnout election and I was just shown that there are even more supporters of that vile man than I had ever assumed in 2016. The USA is a deplorable nation where a large portion of the population are just straight up immoral, bad people. Very sad. And the state I live in is the worst. Every single county went for that man, two elections in a row. Please get me out of this hateful, immoral state.
But... I'm looking forward to January 20th and after when the title "the president" no longer brings me utter disgust. I look forward to being able to have a news station on without a whiny man child constantly throwing temper tantrums showing up. Even moreso, I look forward to no longer having a president who is pushing forth discrimination measures all of the time.
The damage of the 2016 election has already been done, though. I don't know what all can even be fixed, given the corrupt Senate is still Republican (unless those GA runoffs go exceptionally well) and the Supreme Court is heavily stacked. Just let it be known: I will never forgive people who voted for Trump in 2016.
But... I'm looking forward to January 20th and after when the title "the president" no longer brings me utter disgust. I look forward to being able to have a news station on without a whiny man child constantly throwing temper tantrums showing up. Even moreso, I look forward to no longer having a president who is pushing forth discrimination measures all of the time.
The damage of the 2016 election has already been done, though. I don't know what all can even be fixed, given the corrupt Senate is still Republican (unless those GA runoffs go exceptionally well) and the Supreme Court is heavily stacked. Just let it be known: I will never forgive people who voted for Trump in 2016.
he isn't president until the electors come together on december 14th and enough vote for him in addition to their votes being certified
I mean he should by all rights be now, but why would an admin that's perverted everything else since coming into power not seek to pervert this as well? especially when the presidency is literally the only thing keeping trump from not being royally ****ed on all sides by law enforcement agencies and debt collectors (plus the chance criminal investigations could kick into gear over his and his accomplice's abuse of office actions)
ps, vote in georgia's senate runoffs in january if you live there and will be of eligible age come january 5th
I mean he should by all rights be now, but why would an admin that's perverted everything else since coming into power not seek to pervert this as well? especially when the presidency is literally the only thing keeping trump from not being royally ****ed on all sides by law enforcement agencies and debt collectors (plus the chance criminal investigations could kick into gear over his and his accomplice's abuse of office actions)
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ps, vote in georgia's senate runoffs in january if you live there and will be of eligible age come january 5th
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nintendofan85
Good grief.
I utterly believe there is one thing to be learned from Donald Trump's election victory from his supporters in 2016, that history has continuously proven: white Southerners typically, by and large, are not on the right side of history on social issues. They were on the wrong side of history on slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow laws, lynching, voting rights for women, Prohibition, desegregation, giving voting rights to African Americans, apartheid in South Africa, marriage rights for same-sex couples (of which I am in one with another man, from Brazil), and the legalization of marijuana. Hell, I'd argue Southern whites largely still have repugnant, abhorrent views on abortion and the electoral college.
I apologize for my rant, and I probably seem hateful. But as a white guy who grew up in the South, but had views and a sexual orientation that differed from what was socially acceptable, it's pretty clear here that conservatism deserves punishment for a long time.
Alolan_Apples
“Assorted” Collector
Trump doesn’t even know proper Spanish. It’s “hombres malos”, not “bad hombres”. And not all Mexicans or Latinos are bad.
nintendofan85
Good grief.
To add to this, I'd argue that white Southerners have done far worse things for society than people from Latin America have in this country...
Alolan_Apples
“Assorted” Collector
I disagree with that last part, especially in an age where political correctness and socialism are popular (not only that, but also how people are losing respect in public safety). You may wish for conservatism to be the bane of existence, but wait until you get to a time when people have no morals, when the government controls everything, and when you get in a whole lot of trouble for saying something very few people would get offended by. This is where society fails, and that’s where you would eventually get to if liberalism had everything its way. We should not listen to people (like the southern whites) who speak for oppression or for taking away peoples’ rights, but I do not want the government taking away peoples’ basic freedoms.
LuchaSloth
Sloth
It's truly wild to watch Trump attempt to sue all the states he lost the count in. I'm out here following commonwealth lawyers on twitter just so I have the scoop every time he's defeated in a court of law (which is frequent).
Alolan_Apples
“Assorted” Collector
Wanna know something interesting. From the 2016 election, Hillary failed to recognize why she lost. This election, Trump failed to recognize why he lost. So not only these two didn’t accept the election results from both elections, respectively, but they also didn’t recognize the true reason. If I ran for president and lost, not only I will concede, but I’ll also host a pizza party for the winner, congratulating them for winning the election. And I’ll learn from the population.
nintendofan85
Good grief.
As someone who is more libertarian than authoritarian, I agree with those sentiments, but libertarianism and authoritarianism are not clearly defined as being right and left-leaning, basically-despite the fact that typically, yes, Democrats in the United States have favored "bigger government" than Republicans (yet I think Donald Trump's presidency has clearly shown a shift in that regard, and many people actually consider Joe Biden to be more libertarian than President Trump). After all, one reason I became more libertarian than authoritarian starting around 2014 was, again, because of Thomas Jefferson-who in no way was a conservative for his time (yes, I know he was a white Southerner, although a different kind obviously, although Jefferson disgracefully sadly did own slaves, but again sadly, that was commonplace at the time, although what was more morally repugnant about Thomas Jefferson's ownership of slaves was the fact that he basically constantly raped one of them, Sally Hemings, as obviously there was no real way for slaves to consent as they were seen by their masters as nothing more than property). Jefferson largely believed in what was a hands-off governmental experience largely in support of people's rights to things-which while that clearly shows his hypocrisy due to the aforementioned matter of slavery (with the exceptions of John Quincy Adams and Martin Van Buren, every president from Thomas Jefferson to Zachary Taylor would own slaves), but my issue here, Mica, with your sentiments, is that you are implying that decline in the popularity of conservatism in the US (which arguably has declined in popularity as it is, sans the 2004 election when George W. Bush got re-elected over John Kerry, the Republicans have lost the popular vote to the Democrats in now seven of the last eight presidential elections, dating back to when George W. Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, lost re-election to Bill Clinton in 1992) would mean no sense of morality among the American people-which to me sounds like a logical fallacy of a slippery slope that conservatives often like to claim (yes, I know you are conservative yourself). Those same arguments were used, on the part of conservatives, to oppose same-sex marriage prior to the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling in 2015, and also about issues of drug legalization (which, to me, becomes clear when conservatives argue that marijuana is a gateway drug, yet have little evidence to back their claims, and for the record, I myself have no desire to use marijuana, but it's like Prohibition, there's no real good reason to keep it illegal for recreational reasons, which is also a reason why I am pro-choice on abortion, coming from someone who used to be pro-life). If anything, the changing morals in United States history that I would argue date back to the growing abolitionist sentiments in the 1830s to make slavery illegal, which obviously propped up Abraham Lincoln's candidacy for the presidency in 1860, have only made us better. The abolition of slavery that Lincoln led with in 1862, the 19th Amendment in 1920 under Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelt's repeal of Prohibition in 1933, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s (which, most importantly, led to legislation passed by Lyndon B. Johnson, most notably the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965), the feminist turn of events in the 1970s (it still saddens me today that basically Ronald Reagan killed off the Equal Rights Amendment), and the aforementioned legalization of same-sex marriage in 2015 all made us better off as a society. When one considers how fast the demographics in the United States are changing as well-where whites are set to become a minority, making the nation majority minority, likely in this decade or early in the next-these changes aren't just good, they're necessary.
Also, in hindsight, I've honestly become more supportive of political correctness, it makes our views change with the times, and on top of that, I don't see how socialism is a bad thing. Socialism doesn't mean communism-and even then, maybe we should learn a thing or two from some communist countries, after all, Cuba surpassed the United States in life expectancy in 2016.
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I'm not sure I'd agree with that.
Red Cat
On-and-off member
Hillary Clinton accepted her loss. She conceded the day after the election. She knows why she lost and that's why she decided to go into retirement instead of attempt another run this election. Trump refuses to concede and will probably not go away quietly. There is no comparison.
WaileaNoRei
Once and forever
Honestly, I just have to endorse this (and so much of what has been written since in this thread too) So interesting how people who have mocked and belittled everyone who doesn’t agree with them for four years and signed on for the degradation of our nation and its people at every turn including condoning the dehumanization and even murder of people they don’t personally think deserve human rights are now pleading for a little empathy.
*voting for a racist because the racism doesn’t affect you is racist, by the plainest, simplest definition.
I won’t go into a more protracted argument, mainly because I’ve muted everyone who is willing to support and defend a monster like trump - it’s not worth my time. I am fine with disagreeing with people, I even enjoy it at times. I believe that a healthy democracy needs and thrives on healthy public debate. we have a lot of challenges ahead as a society and i don’t know all the answers.
But morality and human rights and dignity are not up for debate. We can discuss reconciliation and forgiveness when you can own the enormous harm you have brought not only to the us but to the world. I don’t think all people who voted for trump are evil. But they all made an evil choice, and we need to reckon with that as a nation and make meaningful change before we can move on.
On a happier note it was amazing, even for a non-religious person like me to hear someone with seemingly sincerely held religious belief speak about them. So nice to remember that the point of religion is not supposed to be hatred and cruelty (though luckily I live in a place where a lot of churches fly rainbow flags and support blm). Also nice to hear some intelligently expressed, coherent thought, and see some genuine familial affection.
here’s hoping no one on here is endorsing the literal coup being attempted by the world’s biggest crybaby. What a weak, pathetic excuse for a man. Thank you to all the other rational people on here standing against this threat to our society. You are writing from a variety of view points but with a common purpose - facts, justice, and morality. You give me hope.
establishment democrats not learning why they keep getting played is a truism though, but yes, hillary clinton did concede
nintendofan85
Good grief.
It is true that technically Joe Biden has run for president more times than Hillary Clinton has (Biden ran in 1988, 2008, and 2020, while Clinton ran in 2008 and 2016), but clearly, what vindicates Clinton about the points Republicans bring up about her (which I still don't get the massive hate the GOP has for her, it doesn't seem rational, same for their opposition they had to the Barack Obama administration, and on Obama, as late as just a few months ago when he delivered the eulogy at John Lewis's funeral, Republicans condemned Obama, and many were also, in my opinion, disgustingly bashing Lewis right after his death, saying that he was nothing more than a "puppet of Nancy Pelosi", and saying that disqualified John Lewis's achievements as a civil rights leader) is that not only did she concede the election, and while yes, she did remain politically expressive following her election loss, she has no plans to run for office again. There were even some Democrats that wanted her to primary Bill de Blasio for the New York City mayoral race in 2017, but Hillary Clinton even objected to doing that.
All of this not only undermines many Republican arguments about Hillary Clinton, but to me, it also shows the irrationality of how much they vilify her. Believe me, I have my own issues with her, but those are to the left of her, not to the right of her-and would be more in line with Bernie Sanders's criticisms of her from the 2016 Democratic primary.
I mean the answer is obvious for both. for hillary clinton, it's because she's a woman. for barack obama, it's because he's a black man
just plain old misogyny and racism. they'll try to sugarcoat it as something more, but that's all just excuses
nintendofan85
Good grief.
I mean, I definitely think there are valid criticisms for both (again, I'd be criticizing them both from the left there, one thing that bothers me is that Obama still did massive bombing raids despite the fact that he partly got the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 under the assumption that this would cease, or at least be lessened from the levels of how it was under his predecessor, George W. Bush), but it doesn't seem like that's why Barack Obama or Clinton are disliked by Republicans.
My conservative Republican parents tried insisting during the second term of the Obama administration that he was one of the worst presidents in history, and this was a sentiment my mother I know still continued to echo in the last year or so, but I won't lie, I don't see how you could credibly make that argument... Unfortunately, I agreed with them at the time several years ago (about five years ago, around 2015) because I just didn't question what they thought, but in hindsight (and I began thinking this even before Barack Obama left office) I'm not so sure how many of those conservative arguments to make Obama's presidency seem like it was awful could be corroborated.
One thing that definitely changed my view of Barack Obama before he left office was that, yes, while it was technically the Supreme Court that brought same-sex marriage to be legal, had there not been the liberal votes of Obama's appointees, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, it likely wouldn't have happened. Again, also, especially a pandemic going on right now, it's hard to deny that Obamacare was a good idea, and is obviously a seminal part of Barack Obama's legacy as a president. Also, he got negotiations going with Cuba to normalize relations (something Donald Trump sabotaged), got Osama bin Laden assassinated (who Bush had never come close to assassinating, and actually, way back around 2000-2001, during the transition to George W. Bush's presidency from that of Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton's husband of course, outgoing President Clinton told then-President-elect Bush that bin Laden was the biggest threat to the United States at the time, but President-elect Bush ignored Clinton, and sadly, as we know, just months later after George W. Bush took office, 9/11 happened), and also finally got Iran to back down on its nuclear weapons development (something that Trump would later sabotage again, in 2018 specifically after the Trump administration withdrew us from the Iran nuclear deal, which was something else that was effective in hindsight).
If you really think about it, Barack Obama got a lot done, and that was with obstructionist Republican Congresses following the midterm elections of 2010 and 2014. (The GOP took the House in 2010, and then the Senate in 2014) I think, and I admit this somewhat embarrassingly-it took Donald Trump becoming president for me appreciating what we had under Barack Obama.
I'm probably repeating myself, but I do not find Republican hatred of Obama and Hillary Clinton to be rational.
criticisms, yes. but this goes well beyond that. hence why I say the sugarcoating is just excuses
nintendofan85
Good grief.
Exactly. Criticism constructively is not what Republicans did about Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton-they vilified and smeared them endlessly, and it didn't seem like once the GOP gave Obama a chance as president.
Reginald Fairfield
Senior Member
She does also keep ranting about it.
