LGBTQA - Discussion and support.

[hulaburger]

She wasn't born male. It's impossible to be born male. Genitalia does not equal sex or gender.

i wasn't gonna get into this argument but
wat
I agree with u that gender is a social construct but you lost me there

the concept of biological sex doesn't exist? are you for real?

 

[Nerd]

ok but pls phrase better. not because im all about grammar but bc this could easily be taken as rly offensive. :/
*Leelah. Her name was Leelah.
She wasn't born male. It's impossible to be born male. Genitalia does not equal sex or gender. She was assigned male at birth because we live in a society that assigns you a gender based on what your genitalia looks like compared to a spectrum of what genitalia can possibly look like. (AMAB, if you ever need to use that acronym in the future).
And, last I checked, she has yet to be buried. We also haven't seen her headstone yet, we have no idea what's engraved on it. I mean, we can guess they'll write Joshua, but we haven't seen it yet.
pls don't hand out false information thx

I get where your coming from because AMAB is the correct term, but I don't think people should get offended by other people wording it differently? I know I can't speak for the trans* community, because I'm cis, but it's not like the person meant it in an offensive way. I don't think a lot of people know the term, and yes it's good to inform them of it, but that's what they meant.

This is really touchy subject tbh so I don't want to make an argument about it. Just popping in to see the current discussions.

I wish society didn't have to assign you gender at birth, but I don't think that's something that's going to change, at least not in the near future (but who knows).
I just think it's great that despite being AMAB or AFAB, people can grow up to discover who they really are c:

 

[unintentional]

I get where your coming from because AMAB is the correct term, but I don't think people should get offended by other people wording it differently? I know I can't speak for the trans* community, because I'm cis, but it's not like the person meant it in an offensive way. I don't think a lot of people know the term, and yes it's good to inform them of it, but that's what they meant.

This is really touchy subject tbh so I don't want to make an argument about it. Just popping in to see the current discussions.

I wish society didn't have to assign you gender at birth, but I don't think that's something that's going to change, at least not in the near future (but who knows).
I just think it's great that despite being AMAB or AFAB, people can grow up to discover who they really are c:

on a side note relating to that, I've read where some trans don't like the '*' at the end. Anyone want to explain why? It can be on here or in PM. I don't want to end up starting up an argument v~v

 

[Lady Timpani]

on a side note relating to that, I've read where some trans don't like the '*' at the end. Anyone want to explain why? It can be on here or in PM. I don't want to end up starting up an argument v~v

I read a post on tumblr that said the asterisk was added to "include trans women" and I think nonbinary people as well, which kind of implies that they're not actually trans in the first place. I'm not sure if that's the reasoning everybody accepts, or if that reasoning is correct, but I've seen multiple trans people object to the asterisk, so I don't use it.

 

[Nerd]

on a side note relating to that, I've read where some trans don't like the '*' at the end. Anyone want to explain why? It can be on here or in PM. I don't want to end up starting up an argument v~v

I read a post on tumblr that said the asterisk was added to "include trans women" and I think nonbinary people as well, which kind of implies that they're not actually trans in the first place. I'm not sure if that's the reasoning everybody accepts, or if that reasoning is correct, but I've seen multiple trans people object to the asterisk, so I don't use it.

Really? I never heard that, huh. The asterisk is just to refer to it as an umbrella term, I thought, since it would include genderfluid, transgender, agender, bigender, etc. I've used them interchangeably as trans and trans* and never heard anyone get angry from it, that's interesting.
"If you were referring to transgender men and women, you'd use trans and if you want to refer to the entirety, use trans*". That's how I've come to understand it.

I'm assuming that originally, people used trans, but then when people started to show up saying things like "hey, that would be confusing if you're referring to me, as someone who is agender, because saying "trans" is too close to just saying "transgender" so why not just add something to include us other identities?"
I understand what you're saying though, that having to add the asterisk would kind of make nonbinary people feel like they aren't trans, but that's why I think everyone should be using the asterisk now because that DOES mean that they're all trans*, it's just more inclusive with the asterisk.

Use it or don't use it, that's what I'll say. I've been reading more up on it, and I'm understanding why some people dislike it. I feel similar about the asterisk, I guess, as I do about the term "queer". Don't use it on other people unless that's what they identify as. It CAN be used offensively, but someone can also use it to label themselves. No one should be told they can't identify as what they want to identify as.

 

[unintentional]

Really? I never heard that, huh. The asterisk is just to refer to it as an umbrella term, I thought, since it would include generfluid, transgender, agender, bigender, etc. I've used them interchangeably as trans and trans* and never heard anyone get angry from it, that's interesting.

I̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶u̶m̶b̶l̶r̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶
p̶l̶s̶d̶o̶n̶t̶h̶u̶r̶t̶m̶e̶

 

[Nerd]

I̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶u̶m̶b̶l̶r̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶
p̶l̶s̶d̶o̶n̶t̶h̶u̶r̶t̶m̶e̶

Yeah, Tumblr...I've had some bad experiences with Tumblr, heh.

Here's something on the matter of the asterisk:
http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/05/what-does-the-asterisk-in-trans-stand-for/

But I've also read a lot of stuff about people who are offended by it (including the comments in that article), so I guess use it at your own risk..but when in doubt just use it without the asterisk.

 

[Alyssa]

I read a post on tumblr that said the asterisk was added to "include trans women" and I think nonbinary people as well, which kind of implies that they're not actually trans in the first place. I'm not sure if that's the reasoning everybody accepts, or if that reasoning is correct, but I've seen multiple trans people object to the asterisk, so I don't use it.

Yeah, most of the people I know, myself included, do not use the asterisk.
It makes sense, though. It implies that nb and trans women are not actually considered trans.
It's kind of like with LGBT, many people want to change it to a more inclusive acronym such as GSD or GSM. Using an asterisk is not entirely inclusive and sort of promotes erasure.

There's some posts here that discuss it more: http://theroguefeminist.tumblr.com/search/trans*

 

[Lady Timpani]

Yeah, I first heard of it as being more inclusive, but around that same time, I saw other people denouncing it as hurtful. It was kind of confusing, I have to admit lol.

As far as it being on tumblr goes, I wouldn't say that tumblr started this craze of "OMG the asterisk is so hurtful don't use it!!" especially since Nerd linked to an article (which I had read previously) where others have expressed discontent with the asterisk. Not that I'm trying to single you out or make fun of you, Jimmy, so if it comes across that way, I apologize.

But yeah, since I've read so many accounts of trans folk/ know trans people who don't like the asterisk, I'm just going to stick with not using it. But if you want to use it, I'd say Nerd's protocol is the most respectful way to do so.

 

[unintentional]

Yeah, I first heard of it as being more inclusive, but around that same time, I saw other people denouncing it as hurtful. It was kind of confusing, I have to admit lol.

As far as it being on tumblr goes, I wouldn't say that tumblr started this craze of "OMG the asterisk is so hurtful don't use it!!" especially since Nerd linked to an article (which I had read previously) where others have expressed discontent with the asterisk. Not that I'm trying to single you out or make fun of you, Jimmy, so if it comes across that way, I apologize.

But yeah, since I've read so many accounts of trans folk/ know trans people who don't like the asterisk, I'm just going to stick with not using it. But if you want to use it, I'd say Nerd's protocol is the most respectful way to do so.

I usually never use the word, unless I'm on here, because a majority of people around me will laugh if I bring anything up like that.

 

[oath2order]

Yeah, most of the people I know, myself included, do not use the asterisk.
It makes sense, though. It implies that nb and trans women are not actually considered trans.
It's kind of like with LGBT, many people want to change it to a more inclusive acronym such as GSD or GSM.
Using an asterisk is not entirely inclusive and sort of promotes erasure.

There's some posts here that discuss it more: http://theroguefeminist.tumblr.com/search/trans*

How in the hell do you get that implication? I really don't get it. Typically, I use the asterisk as a wild card because I quite honestly can't remember ever single little thing about the different types of trans* and every other gender related thing/

 

[Alyssa]

How in the hell do you get that implication? I really don't get it. Typically, I use the asterisk as a wild card because I quite honestly can't remember ever single little thing about the different types of trans* and every other gender related thing/

Trans on it's own is an umbrella term. The asterisk is taken offensively for certain identities because it implies that those are not included under trans itself. Also, the asterisk has been used to include cis identities before (i'm sure that's not something that's widely accepted or anything), which is obviously going to be offensive just like saying A stands for ally is offensive.

 

[oath2order]

Trans on it's own is an umbrella term. The asterisk is taken offensively for certain identities because it implies that those are not included under trans itself. Also, the asterisk has been used to include cis identities before (i'm sure that's not something that's widely accepted or anything), which is obviously going to be offensive just like saying A stands for ally is offensive.

...but stating that A stands for ally isn't offensive in and of itself. It's only offensive if you take it that way.

Remind me again what trans is the umbrella term for. What all falls under it?

 

[Alyssa]

...but stating that A stands for ally isn't offensive in and of itself. It's only offensive if you take it that way.

Remind me again what trans is the umbrella term for. What all falls under it?

trans?gen?der
transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
adjective
denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.

^^ Trans would include anything that falls under that. The asterisk really isn't necessary.

 

[oath2order]

trans?gen?der
transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
adjective
denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.

^^ Trans would include anything that falls under that. The asterisk really isn't necessary.

Not necessary does not make it offensive.

 

[Alyssa]

Not necessary does not make it offensive.

The way that it's offensive is because it implies that certain identities that are trans are not included under the trans umbrella. And then the people who use it to include cis identities are also using it offensively because cis people do not experience the same obstacles or oppression that a trans person does. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude or anything, that isn't my intention. I know most people who use the asterisk do not intentionally use it to erase other identities/include ones that should not be, but since it is used that way and there isn't a reason to even use it what's the point of keeping it?

 

[oath2order]

The way that it's offensive is because it implies that certain identities that are trans are not included under the trans umbrella. And then the people who use it to include cis identities are also using it offensively because cis people do not experience the same obstacles or oppression that a trans person does. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude or anything, that isn't my intention. I know most people who use the asterisk do not intentionally use it to erase other identities/include ones that should not be, but since it is used that way and there isn't a reason to even use it what's the point of keeping it?

But how does it imply that? I don't understand how adding the asterisk somehow excludes certain identities that are trans. It doesn't ****ing make sense.

 

[Nerd]

But how does it imply that? I don't understand how adding the asterisk somehow excludes certain identities that are trans. It doesn't ****ing make sense.

Because the fact that they had to add an asterisk in order to include others in itself is offensive to those people.
I didn't much get it before because it's very confusing, believe me, but I understand how people feel about it and it's personally not really my argument I guess.
People don't use it offensively though, so I don't think if someone uses it it should be seen offensively, but I understand that the creation of it is in itself a bit hurtful to certain identities that to be included into the trans community they're just an asterisk.

Like I said, confusing. This kind of stuff always gets confusing.

 

[unintentional]

I didn't mean to start up something ;n;

 

[Nerd]

I didn't mean to start up something ;n;

Don't worry Jimmy, it was a good thing to point out, a good thing to discuss. That's what this thread is about right?