I overall agreed with this post, and it’s about where I’m at right now. My only other possible answer for all of this is that you’re the mafia and this was an elaborate scheme you both came up with to have a third person prepared to throw blame onto, while both gunning for separate halves of the town. I’d love to hear more counter argument to this.
That's about where I am with everything. It's either random or some elaborate scheme, lol. And I don't know how to investigate if it's the latter.
My counter argument against an elaborate me/shawo scheme? Hard to prove a negative, but probably the best is that I'd have bussed him. Hard. No offense to shawo, but the hard tunneling and conflicting reads/statements would have had me voting him in order to distance, because that kind of play is usually a losing strategy.
alright i'm looking back at sidney / shawo interactions and i think i have one trent one in here so far, this is process and i'm still skimming as i go but alrighty.
so when questioned by trent a little bit on d1, sidney kinda uses the "im inexperienced i don't wannt voice my opinions unless i'm certain of them" stance on d1 a lot and trent asked about "ok if its not you then who do you have a decent case for right now"
I have been regularly checking this thread and responding each time I check that there’s new messages, I can try to respond more but I thought it more useful to only respond when I had something worth contributing versus just constant response
I could see I guess why constant response would be of value though? Less room for mafia to hide, yeah? If that’s what you guys want I can post more but as I said I don’t think they’ll be of much substance yet since I’ve just been observing thus far
I have some gut feelings (which I personally don’t think are worth much; but can share) but I’d also really like to see how this day pans out first
sidney's response to that is immediately shawo. might have been a omgus based on his "sidney is maf, discuss" post, or it could have been d1 bussing? creating some back and forth between each other and causing space while still interacting. (once again at it with the "im inexperienced ofc mafia is going to go after the new townie" woe is me). the whole "if i was mafia id def kill off inexperienced players to fly under the rader" just seems like a very not great thing to say?
It is entirely possible it was of honest intent to target me…however, in my opinion, it would be pretty easy for mafia to decide to target me, as the new player with the least confidence (while i realize we have many new players, much of them have been pretty confident, even for day one). If I was mafia, I could see targeting me as a way to kill off a townie without drawing any suspicion of being mafia myself.
If you guys really want to kill me and think that with net the most info, then like….fine, but I am failing to see what info it would net, besides that shawo was targeting a townie and potentially mafia
I’ll be here until end of day more than likely, so I’m waiting for my vote until I have something I believe in to vote for
Here and here you repeat yourself with the idea that "I'm not good at day one."
Sure. But that looks like a setup to excuse yourself from any scumtells you might make when called on it.
IE: yeah, I said I was bad at d1, that's why I'm playing like this.
So, I was going to push you to see a reaction... but by the time you came back... it was really late for me.
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I actually only think you are town because I understand the way you've gotten your reads. Which is also why I was defending myself to you. While direct, I don't think the process you used to get reads looked like you were pushing an agenda. -> Especially since you seemed fairly committal about them. I'm not willing to commit to a town!Sidney because you still do make posts that I tend to dislike, but I think your reads have been more telling about your alignment than anything else.
shawo also called her out on the constant "im not good at d1" thing and actually had a really good point on it, not posting d1 and being super chill / not having any reads, even gut reads, hides and excuses yourself from any scumtells you might make.
so shawo posts his lil uwu sidney is maf discuss push point.
sidney omgus' him slightly that hes actually mafia,
and then at the end he townreads her and in turn..
Genuinely, I was just being honest about my issues with d1 but the explanation of how you got to that argument and then reversed it pushes me more towards townreading you; could see how that would be suspicious
that messes up my current read though so let me think
she townreads him and they move on. perfect little pressure pot d1.
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i've never played mafia w/ shawo where we're both mafia so i don't know of his coaching technique but i know he's chaotic and likes to make big moves and plays- i'd assume that carries over in his coaching techniques if he's most experienced on the team and would definitely manufacture jabs and pokes and all that. maybe im tinfoiling here but theres more let me continue.
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following that line of questioning from before shawo posts this in response to sidney:
Don't vote the inactives they'll get replaced. Random will, Starlit probs won't.
Anyways, does your read on me have any more substance than two active plays I've made in the game? + If you think my agenda was to get you killed, why didn't I try harder to do so. Your reads follow a super direct Cause -> Mafia. But if anything, I find that people who are more wishy-washy rather than less early on are mafia. Why make an enemy when you can just jump on someone else's read.
And, do you think Betsy!maf is only true if I'm maf? Like, Betsy is towntelling, but a specific engagement with Shawo looks like both could be maf? Or are you just mostly undecided on Betsy.
No, it doesn’t have much of a base this far, esp since recanting your sus on me, though I’m curious as to why and think that may help me get a better read. I addressed that in the post after this plus did put that you did make two good plays so far.
I’d rather not jump on anyone else’s reads because i want to learn to make them for myself + none were presented that i agreed with yet. I think trent may be the one I agree with most outside of what I listed, i just feel like he’d be best at being hiding mafia. But I don’t feel I know enough for a true sus yet
it’s the first on betsy, betsy seems town to me but that specific engagement makes me think potentially both could be maf. but otherwise i think betsy looks town so far or at least haven’t seen anything that suggests otherwise
sidney's been really big on the "i want my own thoughts and feelings on this and i don't wanna jump on other's thoughts" while partly this can be read as towny wanting to be strong and independent i think it also goes along with not wanting to make waves and not wanting to scumtell / bite too big and get bit back? being too afraid to hop on other's thoughts and add pressure in fear of coming across as mafia / bangwagony or just too prideful and wanting to be independent?
maybe i'm being unfair bc i'm a bull in a china shop and 100% down to tunnel and fight my way through a battle if i gotta, but sidney was incredibly passive and i've yet to see any real hard reads from her. maybe im missing some bigger posts im still working through my iso on her right now- but this is where im at currently. (she susses betsy but i don't think i remember anything damning from her? like wheres the "betsy is mafia heres why" post at.
gotcha; and yeah i feel like i was pushing back against shawo all day yesterday. honestly i was starting to think maybe i was just tunneling nothing after all this morning; so the information is actually greatly appreciated sheep. For the record, and I think I expressed this, I never townread shawo. I did, however, think they were contributing enough to keep them around for a little longer and wasn't confident enough in my own reading to press it further.
maybe it was wording, and maybe i'm looking too far into it but she then states on d2 when shawo was called out from sheep and was on the chopping block that she never actually townread shawo..?
also to touch base on shawo's last day alive reads: a tinfoil tae edition for your viewing pleasure.
My strongest townreads are: Betsy/Random. I've not actually given my reasons for TRing either of them, but I think a couple of things stand out to me.
Random I actually think is basically 100% town. Their reads are so... so garbage. In a really towny way. I don't want to start a fight, usually, but basically what I'm trying to say is that Random's reads are SO bad, I don't think mafia could have conceivably created them.
Betsy is just a town-lean. Solid game basically exists as everything Tessa isn't. IMO, between the two of them, Betsy has actually tried to solve, Tessa has not. Pretty sure if you just ISO'd between the two of them, that could come to light.
Now tbh, my read on Tessa wasn't super strong going in. But I think Tessa should be in contention for elim from everyone. I get that everyone's townreading Tessa... but at the same time... I don't really think Tessa's done anything to be townready besides... post well? Like sure, that's fine and valid, but you're just going to get pocketed into a 3 way IF tessa is mafia.
If I had to give a 1/1 partner for sheep, it would be Tessa.
For Tae/Sidney. I think Sidney's posts come from a good place, I still dislike their posts, but I think generally there's a town-solvey tendency that tends to come across from Sidney's posts.
imo the least town is Tae, between Sidney and Tae, because while Tae is trying their best... haha... it doesn't really come across well. The reason I'm so latched onto Tessa is because I think mafia!Tae doesn't make that absolutely awful no elim play day 1. I think. I'm like fairly certain Tae is more experienced than that. And that just... it was so... Like no offense....
So yeah, here's my slightly barbed, probably final set of reads, unless someone wants to swoop in and save me like a guardian angel.
(If you let me die on ML and die with a report I will forever curse you in spec chat.)
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So, I know I'm town. What set of reasoning do you want me to use. Haha, sheep must've been JOKING.
we all know shawo 180's on tessa which is obviously imo, tessa = town and he wanted her dead. she was predominantly townread by most everyone and he wanted to add chaos to that. (and for some it worked) but i don't believe him and if it bites me in the ass i will take it to my grave).
his strongest TRs are random/betsy:
betsy recieved a lot of backlash from me on d1 due to some tinfoil wearing hat stuff but i don't scumlean her anymore bc it was just that- tinfoil imo. & basically is a set up for "tessa is scummy bc these reads but betsy is her opposite so betsy is town instead". shawo knows betsy will tinfoil proudly and bite at his tessa post. he put betsy on a platform and gave her something to nibble on in the corner and it worked. (no offense betsy ily.)
honestly i think the reason he TRs these two the stongest is bc random has so little substance to them that there's not **** to learn from his TR on random at all. its filler and its chaos. (petition to change shawo's UN to chaos) random doesn't contribute enough and we all know that and shawo knows if town elims random that random will not sufficiently defend themselves and end up elimed. it's a potentially easy town kill from where i see it..?
for sidney: he states he actively dislikes how her posts read, but still TRs her bc he thinks shes "coming from a good place" which is kind of a cap out? and not a lot of substance to leave behind on her...? he also lumped me into the "tae is trying their best" with a "haha" from a cheeky standpoint on a previous game we played. i know shawo always thinks im an easy target and by lumping me in with his scummate who always has some sus on me that it'll create enough of a "stir the pot in the end if its a down to tae and sidney be sure to vote tae out" kind of way.
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anyway my migraine is worse so im going to end this long winded post here and take off my tinfoil hat. im so tired, AMA.
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to add on real quick before i start getting ready for work:
i might know shawo too personally to think 100% clearly here, but from what i know about their mafia game style is that voting out random today would be exactly what he'd want town to do and i do not want to give him that pleasure.
i would much rather vote out sidney today than random.
i think with voting out sidney today- we learn a lot more than by voting random out.
if we vote out random and they flip green, we don't learn jack. which means d4 we're at MYLO, and i haven't seen a whole lot of hard-set cases built on anyone yet. i feel like looking back at shawo/sidney interactions and how trent's dying words were "its shawo/betsy" and sidney is sus of mostly betsy outside of random, that it's likely that scum team was actually shawo/sidney all along.
if everyone is absolutely dead-set on a random emil today, i'll vote for him, but i want yall to really think about sidney here because she's my biggest scum lean and i'm going to actually sob if random flips town at eod.
So, only two chances remaining. thank you sheep i suck at math but i thought it was low
What I’m thinking right now, is, doing some work out with the names and knowing my own role; (I hope this makes sense)
If I’m somehow voted off, and tessa is still as strong a town read as today (so likely nk next night, right?)
That would leave tae, betsy, and random on the final day, yeah?
I think regardless of which one of the three is mafia that kind of worries me, at this particular moment
Also, I think random is the most confusing right now. Shawo also defended them to begin with off of nothing, then flip back, then back to defending again. Then defending again this morning. Perhaps the shawo sus is coached distancing?
Random also, iirc, had opposite views of shawo and townread me.
Tae, I’m still iffy about. I’m not a huge fan of the sus on me but when it’s just elimination it’s hard to make a judgement on it. Especially when I agree about tessa probably being town. I do wonder though, tae, did you say why you think it’s not betsy?
and then betsy just worries me for shawo interactions (the others now being mostly null, considering shawo maf)
I think at the moment random would give us the most information
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Also, I don’t particularly care if I die if it leads us to the actual mafia. But I don’t think right now it will (ofc we’ll have like. a whole other day cycle before that but)
for starters her posting that tessa being the obvious nk rubs me wrong and feels a little too thought out if you ask me.
ANYWAY moving on-
she says voting random gives us the most info- but i 100% feel like the exact opposite and that she's pushing for her scummate's chaos plot he started. like shwo left some random chaos crumbs lying around and her biggest argument is that shawo's interaction with random = random being mafia but outside of that has no real case on random at all..?
same goes for betsy tho? also worried about betsy due to shawo interactions but she has yet to build a legit case on the matter?
but is quick to question me for not sussing betsy anymore (when i stated after re-reading d1 betsy came across as more town leaning and tinfoil hat wearing than actually scummy).
// serious question here that anyone and everyone can answer:
if we vote random today and they flip green instead of red, what do we learn? with all their post lefts behind in the current thread, at this point in time (since they havent defended themselves yet) what vital information do they leave behind? quote me posts if you have to, but like what vital information does random actually leave behind for us? someone please explain it to me.
If it is town!tessa, maf!shawo, and cop!sheep….
I don’t think it’s random anymore. I won’t rule out the possibility that shawo coached them and instructed random to start placing suspicion on them now to create distance, but I don’t see it as the most likely possibility.
That leaves you and betsy. I’m leaning slightly towards betsy still for no reason other than gut instinct.
It feels like a minor thing, but it still bothers me that unless I misread the thread, shawo was the first to throw out suspicions (and went right for an easy target). Then shawo and betsy interact, and betsy throws out a handful of additional targets- inactive people (also easy and easy to defend later).
I think I’ve seen some people sus you (tae); i haven’t personally seen anything that makes me feel like it would be you (tae) over betsy. I’ll have to go back again and reread.
Unless someone else wants to enlighten me/did an ISO/whatever
in which she stated she doesn't feel that its random anymore, and that shawo coaching them is a possibility but not the most likely scenario.. which eventually divulged into her auto voting at the start of d3 after tessa placed her first vote onto random.
so betsy is sidney's strongest gut sus thus far, but she hasn't built a case on her. didn vote her to pressure her. didn't really push. just passively stated "im sus of betsy" and then votes random bc random gives "the most information".... i don't like it.
alright i'm looking back at sidney / shawo interactions and i think i have one trent one in here so far, this is process and i'm still skimming as i go but alrighty.
so when questioned by trent a little bit on d1, sidney kinda uses the "im inexperienced i don't wannt voice my opinions unless i'm certain of them" stance on d1 a lot and trent asked about "ok if its not you then who do you have a decent case for right now"
sidney's response to that is immediately shawo. might have been a omgus based on his "sidney is maf, discuss" post, or it could have been d1 bussing? creating some back and forth between each other and causing space while still interacting. (once again at it with the "im inexperienced ofc mafia is going to go after the new townie" woe is me). the whole "if i was mafia id def kill off inexperienced players to fly under the rader" just seems like a very not great thing to say?
It was neither. I felt like the accusacation came out of nowhere and I knew from my one previous (also town) game that people were likely to sus new players for little reason and more often than not people go with it. As no one else had thrown any accusations before, it felt like shawo was going for low hanging fruit.
shawo also called her out on the constant "im not good at d1" thing and actually had a really good point on it, not posting d1 and being super chill / not having any reads, even gut reads, hides and excuses yourself from any scumtells you might make.
so shawo posts his lil uwu sidney is maf discuss push point.
sidney omgus' him slightly that hes actually mafia,
and then at the end he townreads her and in turn..
she townreads him and they move on. perfect little pressure pot d1.
I didn’t townread them. They stayed on my sus list all the way through. I only conceded I could see how it COULD have been a town move, and the game math thing seemed to be a town-helping play. As I said when asked random v shawo, I felt like shawo still had more to give us before being eliminated (like….who he they were working
sidney's been really big on the "i want my own thoughts and feelings on this and i don't wanna jump on other's thoughts" while partly this can be read as towny wanting to be strong and independent i think it also goes along with not wanting to make waves and not wanting to scumtell / bite too big and get bit back? being too afraid to hop on other's thoughts and add pressure in fear of coming across as mafia / bangwagony or just too prideful and wanting to be independent?
Neither? Both? I’m just trying to develop my own playstyle and solve the game.
maybe i'm being unfair bc i'm a bull in a china shop and 100% down to tunnel and fight my way through a battle if i gotta, but sidney was incredibly passive and i've yet to see any real hard reads from her. maybe im missing some bigger posts im still working through my iso on her right now- but this is where im at currently. (she susses betsy but i don't think i remember anything damning from her? like wheres the "betsy is mafia heres why" post at.
maybe it was wording, and maybe i'm looking too far into it but she then states on d2 when shawo was called out from sheep and was on the chopping block that she never actually townread shawo..?
i just felt really smart and shocked and was hoping sheep was correct so i could feel like i called it first and did something of some effort to town, though I’m not sure how much my efforts lead to sheep’s investigation
we all know shawo 180's on tessa which is obviously imo, tessa = town and he wanted her dead. she was predominantly townread by most everyone and he wanted to add chaos to that. (and for some it worked) but i don't believe him and if it bites me in the ass i will take it to my grave).
his strongest TRs are random/betsy:
betsy recieved a lot of backlash from me on d1 due to some tinfoil wearing hat stuff but i don't scumlean her anymore bc it was just that- tinfoil imo. & basically is a set up for "tessa is scummy bc these reads but betsy is her opposite so betsy is town instead". shawo knows betsy will tinfoil proudly and bite at his tessa post. he put betsy on a platform and gave her something to nibble on in the corner and it worked. (no offense betsy ily.)
honestly i think the reason he TRs these two the stongest is bc random has so little substance to them that there's not **** to learn from his TR on random at all. its filler and its chaos. (petition to change shawo's UN to chaos) random doesn't contribute enough and we all know that and shawo knows if town elims random that random will not sufficiently defend themselves and end up elimed. it's a potentially easy town kill from where i see it..?
Random could be. I really feel like we need to see more from them. Shawo did set up a persona of being helpful and wanting someone more active eliminated the first day. Though, I also have to wonder if that was *specifically* to not arouse suspicion about random
for sidney: he states he actively dislikes how her posts read, but still TRs her bc he thinks shes "coming from a good place" which is kind of a cap out? and not a lot of substance to leave behind on her...? he also lumped me into the "tae is trying their best" with a "haha" from a cheeky standpoint on a previous game we played. i know shawo always thinks im an easy target and by lumping me in with his scummate who always has some sus on me that it'll create enough of a "stir the pot in the end if its a down to tae and sidney be sure to vote tae out" kind of way.
……What? I only recently had you on a sus list due to process of elimination and even said rereading your posts I can’t seem to grasp why it would be you; Did you miss the posts where I pulled back some of your posts a few posts ago?
i would much rather vote out sidney today than random.
i think with voting out sidney today- we learn a lot more than by voting random out.
if we vote out random and they flip green, we don't learn jack. which means d4 we're at MYLO, and i haven't seen a whole lot of hard-set cases built on anyone yet. i feel like looking back at shawo/sidney interactions and how trent's dying words were "its shawo/betsy" and sidney is sus of mostly betsy outside of random, that it's likely that scum team was actually shawo/sidney all along.
if everyone is absolutely dead-set on a random emil today, i'll vote for him, but i want yall to really think about sidney here because she's my biggest scum lean and i'm going to actually sob if random flips town at eod.
If you guys really want to vote me and think it will give you enough info to crack this that’s fine, I’m not sure how well i could solve it in the final three anyhow, but I’m warning you now that I am genuinely town. I’m worried about how tomorrow will go if random is in the final three and town as well.
….why? I was confused night one when starlit was gone, and then it was explained to me by shawo theirself that the nightkills likely meant nothing and wouldn’t give us much info. So I would assume that the mafia team would still be following that, and if it’s random, that random would follow whatever shawo said previously
she says voting random gives us the most info- but i 100% feel like the exact opposite and that she's pushing for her scummate's chaos plot he started. like shwo left some random chaos crumbs lying around and her biggest argument is that shawo's interaction with random = random being mafia but outside of that has no real case on random at all..?
Random is the unknown card here right now. If they still don’t post much today, then tomorrow, if they ARE somehow town, I feel like mafia will push for them. It would also let us examine everyone’s actions towards random
tae: same goes for betsy tho? also worried about betsy due to shawo interactions but she has yet to build a legit case on the matter?
but is quick to question me for not sussing betsy anymore (when i stated after re-reading d1 betsy came across as more town leaning and tinfoil hat wearing than actually scummy).
if we vote random today and they flip green instead of red, what do we learn? with all their post lefts behind in the current thread, at this point in time (since they havent defended themselves yet) what vital information do they leave behind? quote me posts if you have to, but like what vital information does random actually leave behind for us? someone please explain it to me.
as above, imo. If you have better ideas for people that give more info then go ahead and share
If you think that person is me and others agree then like I said…that’s fine. Can I ask though, What information would you be gaining out of my death? Who will you be going for next? If it’s random next, I’m afraid of that being the end game.
in which she stated she doesn't feel that its random anymore, and that shawo coaching them is a possibility but not the most likely scenario.. which eventually divulged into her auto voting at the start of d3 after tessa placed her first vote onto random.
so betsy is sidney's strongest gut sus thus far, but she hasn't built a case on her. didn vote her to pressure her. didn't really push. just passively stated "im sus of betsy" and then votes random bc random gives "the most information".... i don't like it.
As I said earlier, I was hoping two votes on them would put enough pressure on them to give us something. That’s obviously…Not working, though. I also do have a betsy theory I was hoping to post tonight, but my friend had a family emergency I don’t feel is appropriate to divulge here that will keep me away from my computer until late tonight.
Tae, I think I'll need time to really study on your theory. My biggest reason to eliminate sidney was the fact that shawo initiated the 'sidney is maf, discuss'. If I understand, what you're saying is that shawo threw that out as a distancing tactic, they had some sus type interaction, but then brought it back to townreads despite the sus?
Let me know if I have it wrong?
I did feel uncomfortable with the idea of just voting random and not investigating anything else, which is why I haven't voted yet, tried to engage random, and went searching. I agree that my read on random is based a lot on shawo seeming to move the vote away from random d1. But a couple of other things bothered me on random as well.
(Tinfoil on). I think shawo knew he'd possibly be investigated after the way d1 ended. If his partner was also sussed, he would want to have his partner put distance between them. D2 started with random saying shawo was sus but not giving a good reason.
Ok after reading more, I’m less suspicious of Shawo, which in turn makes me more suspicious of him. Here’s reasoning. From what you all said abt me, I think that he might have been being coached. See, at the beginning, it was short answers, and less frequent ones too. (ie, the “town” and “Maf” posts) and now they post more frequently and with more to post. Just keep that in mind.
And here comes tinfoil. "Got it" isn't usually an individual, stand alone phrase. Got it is usually a response to something, which was why my tinfoil hat went on because he wasn't answering got it to anything in the thread. So I figured it had to be a response to something outside the thread. And shawo answered that "town" very quickly, less than a minute.
I get that it could be innocent and something shawo ****posted in response, which was why on d1 I was more seeing it as a random mafslip that had nothing to do with shawo.
But this explanation d2:
basically, the first message I sent, (The “Got it”) was me being late and saying that to the game starting idrk why I sent it. (I don’t know why I said it)
- scratched my tinfoil, because how could that be in response to the game starting when it was his 4th post and he was present and posting (granted, pokemon go, but still) at beginning of d1.
shawo knows betsy will tinfoil proudly and bite at his tessa post. he put betsy on a platform and gave her something to nibble on in the corner and it worked. (no offense betsy ily.)
This is true. Proud wearer of the foil. However- I did point out that the tessa maf read felt like a setup.
It seems like the basics of what you're saying on shawo's last reads is that he put tessa, myself, and random at the extreme ends of definite town/definite maf in order to confuse us and keep the focus on those three?
More tinfoil, not the hat, the whole suit- one other reason I didn't vote random right away and asked him to come defend if he was town is because with the way d2 ended, with shawo croaked and everyone sussing the heck out of random, I was thinking that if it were random, he might have conceded at that point. I was kind of halfway expecting it. I can point to plenty of sus things from random and from shawo that indicates random, but it bugs me.
Tae, I think I'll need time to really study on your theory. My biggest reason to eliminate sidney was the fact that shawo initiated the 'sidney is maf, discuss'.
Tae, I think I'll need time to really study on your theory. My biggest reason to eliminate sidney was the fact that shawo initiated the 'sidney is maf, discuss'.
It was neither. I felt like the accusacation came out of nowhere and I knew from my one previous (also town) game that people were likely to sus new players for little reason and more often than not people go with it. As no one else had thrown any accusations before, it felt like shawo was going for low hanging fruit.
……What? I only recently had you on a sus list due to process of elimination and even said rereading your posts I can’t seem to grasp why it would be you; Did you miss the posts where I pulled back some of your posts a few posts ago?
Random is the unknown card here right now. If they still don’t post much today, then tomorrow, if they ARE somehow town, I feel like mafia will push for them. It would also let us examine everyone’s actions towards random
Can I ask though, What information would you be gaining out of my death? Who will you be going for next? If it’s random next, I’m afraid of that being the end game.
As I said earlier, I was hoping two votes on them would put enough pressure on them to give us something. That’s obviously…Not working, though. I also do have a betsy theory I was hoping to post tonight, but my friend had a family emergency I don’t feel is appropriate to divulge here that will keep me away from my computer until late tonight.
that’s the point of it all. he pushed you bc he didn’t have a real case. so it was easy to play off, and forget about it. looked like a “trying to get a reaction” post and when you defended yourself he backed off and never revisited it. added pressure and backed off, easy ploy to show he’s pushing you but not enough to get any traction for it. it’s a good strategy to pull.
i think i did miss your posts. will revisit after work.
do you think the value eliminating random today brings us much closer to winning? if random flips green what’s plan B for you?
your death gives us many more posts to gut and sift through compared to a random flip does. if you flipped green i’d have to hard evaluate between betsy vs random. at that point we’re at MYLO and it’s much more frantic. your betsy case could turn the whole game around ¯\_(ツ)_/ but nobody’s posted super big pushes yet so i’m just pushing what i feel is the better case to push at this point.
we all know pressuring random doesn’t do jack so far. it’s met with a “AMA idk what to tell y’all” lmao.
if just think it’s more likely that shawo coached sidney into playing the trope of new player and not making big reads and laying low and just going along with the flow rather than building a big case.
i also believe random is too easy of an elimination and even if they flip green that leaves us with so little information to sift through.
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i also wanna point out that pushing sooner than later is better because EOD chaos pushes is what got trent killed. and i want you to be able to make your case and what not without having to frantically rush bc eod is in an hour etc.
wasting 30 hours of d3 hoping random gives any kind of fight seems like a waste of time and i don’t wanna sit around waiting for random to decide to return to the thread to post their third reiteration of “idk how to defend myself, AMA”
Tae, I think I'll need time to really study on your theory. My biggest reason to eliminate sidney was the fact that shawo initiated the 'sidney is maf, discuss'. If I understand, what you're saying is that shawo threw that out as a distancing tactic, they had some sus type interaction, but then brought it back to townreads despite the sus?
@BetsySundrop yes you’re correct. it’s a perfect hot potato tactic. idk if it’s got a mafia term for it, but you sus you partner, make a few jabs and then back off and leave it at that. you can easily write it off as a “i’m just stirring the pot” i’ve done before too. where you just random sus someone for gut reactions and back off. (or tunnel it i guess). but that paired with other interactions is why i feel like sidney is a better scum candidate than random.
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i have to start my session now but i’ll be back after 7:30pm MT.
alright i'm looking back at sidney / shawo interactions and i think i have one trent one in here so far, this is process and i'm still skimming as i go but alrighty.
so when questioned by trent a little bit on d1, sidney kinda uses the "im inexperienced i don't wannt voice my opinions unless i'm certain of them" stance on d1 a lot and trent asked about "ok if its not you then who do you have a decent case for right now"
sidney's response to that is immediately shawo. might have been a omgus based on his "sidney is maf, discuss" post, or it could have been d1 bussing? creating some back and forth between each other and causing space while still interacting. (once again at it with the "im inexperienced ofc mafia is going to go after the new townie" woe is me). the whole "if i was mafia id def kill off inexperienced players to fly under the rader" just seems like a very not great thing to say?
shawo also called her out on the constant "im not good at d1" thing and actually had a really good point on it, not posting d1 and being super chill / not having any reads, even gut reads, hides and excuses yourself from any scumtells you might make.
so shawo posts his lil uwu sidney is maf discuss push point.
sidney omgus' him slightly that hes actually mafia,
and then at the end he townreads her and in turn..
she townreads him and they move on. perfect little pressure pot d1.
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i've never played mafia w/ shawo where we're both mafia so i don't know of his coaching technique but i know he's chaotic and likes to make big moves and plays- i'd assume that carries over in his coaching techniques if he's most experienced on the team and would definitely manufacture jabs and pokes and all that. maybe im tinfoiling here but theres more let me continue.
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following that line of questioning from before shawo posts this in response to sidney:
sidney's been really big on the "i want my own thoughts and feelings on this and i don't wanna jump on other's thoughts" while partly this can be read as towny wanting to be strong and independent i think it also goes along with not wanting to make waves and not wanting to scumtell / bite too big and get bit back? being too afraid to hop on other's thoughts and add pressure in fear of coming across as mafia / bangwagony or just too prideful and wanting to be independent?
maybe i'm being unfair bc i'm a bull in a china shop and 100% down to tunnel and fight my way through a battle if i gotta, but sidney was incredibly passive and i've yet to see any real hard reads from her. maybe im missing some bigger posts im still working through my iso on her right now- but this is where im at currently. (she susses betsy but i don't think i remember anything damning from her? like wheres the "betsy is mafia heres why" post at.
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maybe it was wording, and maybe i'm looking too far into it but she then states on d2 when shawo was called out from sheep and was on the chopping block that she never actually townread shawo..?
also to touch base on shawo's last day alive reads: a tinfoil tae edition for your viewing pleasure.
we all know shawo 180's on tessa which is obviously imo, tessa = town and he wanted her dead. she was predominantly townread by most everyone and he wanted to add chaos to that. (and for some it worked) but i don't believe him and if it bites me in the ass i will take it to my grave).
his strongest TRs are random/betsy:
betsy recieved a lot of backlash from me on d1 due to some tinfoil wearing hat stuff but i don't scumlean her anymore bc it was just that- tinfoil imo. & basically is a set up for "tessa is scummy bc these reads but betsy is her opposite so betsy is town instead". shawo knows betsy will tinfoil proudly and bite at his tessa post. he put betsy on a platform and gave her something to nibble on in the corner and it worked. (no offense betsy ily.)
honestly i think the reason he TRs these two the stongest is bc random has so little substance to them that there's not **** to learn from his TR on random at all. its filler and its chaos. (petition to change shawo's UN to chaos) random doesn't contribute enough and we all know that and shawo knows if town elims random that random will not sufficiently defend themselves and end up elimed. it's a potentially easy town kill from where i see it..?
for sidney: he states he actively dislikes how her posts read, but still TRs her bc he thinks shes "coming from a good place" which is kind of a cap out? and not a lot of substance to leave behind on her...? he also lumped me into the "tae is trying their best" with a "haha" from a cheeky standpoint on a previous game we played. i know shawo always thinks im an easy target and by lumping me in with his scummate who always has some sus on me that it'll create enough of a "stir the pot in the end if its a down to tae and sidney be sure to vote tae out" kind of way.
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anyway my migraine is worse so im going to end this long winded post here and take off my tinfoil hat. im so tired, AMA.
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to add on real quick before i start getting ready for work:
i might know shawo too personally to think 100% clearly here, but from what i know about their mafia game style is that voting out random today would be exactly what he'd want town to do and i do not want to give him that pleasure.
i would much rather vote out sidney today than random.
i think with voting out sidney today- we learn a lot more than by voting random out.
if we vote out random and they flip green, we don't learn jack. which means d4 we're at MYLO, and i haven't seen a whole lot of hard-set cases built on anyone yet. i feel like looking back at shawo/sidney interactions and how trent's dying words were "its shawo/betsy" and sidney is sus of mostly betsy outside of random, that it's likely that scum team was actually shawo/sidney all along.
if everyone is absolutely dead-set on a random emil today, i'll vote for him, but i want yall to really think about sidney here because she's my biggest scum lean and i'm going to actually sob if random flips town at eod.
ISTG MY SHAWO SIDNEY THEORY IS COMING TO LIFE WITH THIS OML
some very valid points are made here. i have a bit of work to do so i wont post yet, but I'll be removing my vote and looking deeper into sidney and random, and which one seems scummier. I'll probably post thoughts later.
Sidney I'm curious why you viewed me specifically in this conversation as having a manufactured conversation with shawo. I went back and read it. It starts with 'sidney is maf, discuss', and includes several people (myself, trent, tae, etc) responding on our view of what he posted.
When nobody really had a big reaction to it (I believe my response was "meh, what are your reasons" - which he never gave), he went on to ask people who they would vote if they absolutely had to vote at that time, if not sidney. Again, more people responded than just me, and my response was not to just throw a 'couple names out' as you put it. I actually gave a brief read on everyone at that time. Here it is, post 52:
Well, I was thinking sheep seems more town leaning, based on their previous play from town games, and if the inactives will be replaced for d2, I'd vote for either Totally_RandomYT or tae- if I HAD to vote one. No substance, no prodding, no voting. A few pokemon go related posts from the one but that's it.
Right now you seem to be following the same patterns as your last town game. Trent I have no idea. He seems to be poking some now but looking for a real quiet d1 w/ a quick no elim vote....seems like if people went along with it would just help maf hide. But maybe that is just his playstyle.
I can’t townread this because I’m too suspicious of people and just think this would’ve been an easy way for mafia to manufacture a conversation that pushes us towards 3 different elims while not suspecting both of them + easy cover up when it turns up those people are town (if they are)
Again, I gave a brief read on everyone, and excluded the 2 who were completely inactive at that point in time (because it was mentioned that they'd probably be replaced).
I will say, though, that I do vote low activity players off d1, especially if it seems they won't get better. I've been in a game where inactives were a real pain late in the game, so now I try to avoid it like the plague (how long did we debate pottercrossing, tessa, lol?).
now that tae's brought it up again i'm going to add on to my previous tinfoil hat theory:
A summary (in tessa’s words) of d1 shawo and sidney:
Shawo: sidney is mafia because of lack of content (even though tessa and many others weren’t even active, lol)
Sidney: is this a town push? i feel like you’re mafia, but it’s too soon to say so idk…
Sidney (again): i’m trying hard to contribute and voting me off would be useless cmon guys
(note: this was only a few posts later and as far as i see nobody was pushing for her and shawo hadn’t responded yet?? the need to defend herself after one small bit is confusing)
Sidney (again again): i would vote shawo because he targeted me cause im new, whatever i flip won’t net any info
Sidney (again again again): i found this post from shawo and im going to tr him now
Sidney (again x4): i have questions for shawo, kind of feel like this certain convo is manufactured
Sidney (idek how many agains): hmm i don’t think he’s mafia but idk if he’s town? i’m confused
Shawo: i don’t agree with any of sidneys posts but she’s town (entirely opposite of ‘i like all of tessa’s reads but she’s mafia… does this mean anything?)
And then they both vote trent i’m too lazy to write the rest plus i have something else to say
So I was curious. But out of 28 posts (give or take, I didn't expand them all.)
Trent has essentially given reads twice. Once about starlit/sidney, and the quote I gave earlier.
I think that's my biggest gripe reading through Trent's content. It doesn't feel like they're posting to do... anything. It feels like they're posting to post.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But a lot of posts are just talking about other people's reads - but you haven't done much to share your own.
I went back and checked, and weirdly this is true? Sheep is fairly committal on the elim though, which is a + imo, but what's weird is that I think that might've been happening in lieu of trying to get a read on the more active players?
Does this conversation feel a little bit manufactured to you guys? Like Sidney brings up something against a town member-shawo agrees-they bring suspicion up and both agree on something but then nobody else follows so they completely drop it. I wonder if this set of posts was meant to be the start of a town bw that never came to be because nobody else responded to it. Like neither of them mentioned it again and put their focus on other people instead.
I will say, though, that I do vote low activity players off d1, especially if it seems they won't get better. I've been in a game where inactives were a real pain late in the game, so now I try to avoid it like the plague (how long did we debate pottercrossing, tessa, lol?).
But really, I do think it's still a decent possibility for random being maf, considering the push away from random by shawo, along with the other things I mentioned. I want to hear from sidney, too, so I've not decided who I'm voting yet.
But really, I do think it's still a decent possibility for random being maf, considering the push away from random by shawo, along with the other things I mentioned. I want to hear from sidney, too, so I've not decided who I'm voting yet.
honestly i’m willing to re-evaluate random if sidney flips green honestly. maybe i’m putting too much faith in it all but i still believe we elim sidney over random here. ¯\_(ツ)_/ tinfoil hat wearing if i gotta.
because if random flips town and i have no freaking idea where to go from there other than sidney as of right now.
and i’ll warn you all now if we elim random
today and he flips green i’m absolutely tunneling sidney and will fist fight y’all in the parking lot to look into her because scummy.
i have had such an emotionally exhausting day guys I’m really sorry
I’ll try to get betsy theory running before the end of the day
Right now I’m look at the chat and I’m so scared that it’s going to end up being me and all you guys will have tomorrow is back to just looking at random
I’m town through and through but I also don’t want to be fighting this hard for myself next day either
I will say, though, that I do vote low activity players off d1, especially if it seems they won't get better. I've been in a game where inactives were a real pain late in the game, so now I try to avoid it like the plague (how long did we debate pottercrossing, tessa, lol?).
I don’t have the energy for the rest of the thread right now but i will say i am understanding now because random is making my head hurt so bad
I don’t really have some great defense for myself honestly I’m legit just not confident at this game yet and my brain kept and keeps tossing back and forth on people; which is why i’ve tried to give reasonings for any sides i can see
if you guys really think i will be the answer to tomorrow then i mean by all means, i want to solve this game one way or another
I just genuinely don’t see tomorrow being any different if I’m out
I'm dying right now. Read my above post, lolol....
