Mafia Mountainous Mafia: Camp Mafia - Mafia Wins!

[droqen]

the logic used regarding Geoni is still sending red flags, even beyond death.

lol

Did anyone reply to this logic day 1 in a readable way?

 

[Damniel]

okay after some pondering i'm voting @Damniel, here's my explanation:



Sowing chaos
Similar thing to what he's accusing bianca of but worse -- this isn't "X, Y, Z are sus," more like making a sweeping statement that it's hard/impossible to blame anyone! doesn't read as frustrated to me (as if he's trying to figure out the puzzle), just bringing up something to confuse those trying to logic it out.







Damniel started out on the geoni wagon and then returned to it for an imo weak reason, scans to me as a big excuse: geoni said right in the beginning of the game that he was going to try and be less intense, which seems obvious indication of why he'd play differently. would Damniel really have missed that? (he didn't miss it. click on below link to see.)



~



I feel like this is Damniel potentially following through on his own prediction of "mafia come into and plan each day with specific wagons...". i'm swayed by his arguments regarding @Biancasbotique , but i've been trusting in a lot of Damniel's words despite being a bit sus of him the whole game, so i went back and asked, "what if I look at the thread but ignore all of Damniel's claims?" and a lot of these little things popped up and added up. is bianca really that sus, or is she just easy to pin the sus on using this reason? Geoni was slightly town-reading bianca at the end, as well.

~

and there's also the other side of the Geoni thing. the mafia side.




i thought i was alone in thinking this, but this mirrors a lot of my own suspicions. i don't know from past games, but damniel seems very confident/bold from our interactions this game. i wouldn't put it past him.

if Damniel turns out to be mafia i'd bet his partner is someone geoni was strongly sussing.

~

i have no idea who his partner would be if he is mafia tho. i'm not really giving that any consideration atm. pls share thoughts or anything i might have missed (in either direction)

first part, I mean, the vast majority of the votes were made with weak reasoning. saying that everyone’s voting was meh i guess would make my voting open to everyone but I’ve clearly made townreads. I did not say I was suspicious of everyone for their votes, I said it was hard to read into them

you use my own logic to say im setting up a bianca wagon, okay fair enough. but do you think bianca is town? you need to at least engage with my reasoning for my suspicion so you can assert im merely just trying to get her killed. I am pointing out reasoning why she can be mafia, do you disagree with this reasoning?

I knew that geoni wouldn’t be posting walls, but still, his posts felt very fluffy and lacked conviction to solve. Even if he wasn’t going to go hard into the game, I expected more. It just felt like he was asking empty questions with no real town motivation. His EoD was also really apathetic and sounded defeated which made me think it was just him. I knew that behaviorally he’d be different, but I was expecting a town geoni to still have stronger effort to solve. I was wrong obviously but I think i just had high expectations of him given i’ve known him so long. he was killed though so clearly he was doing some right, though

you say i COULD do this and I COULD kill geoni for this reasoning, but you need to engage with my reads to prove that I am doing what I say mafia tend to do. Can you rationalize my actions as town motivated? or am everything Im doing mafia motivated?

 

[Antonio]

lol

Did anyone reply to this logic day 1 in a readable way?

I don't recall so, my memory is absolutely poor so please don't ask me this.

 

[Damniel]

Wait, I still got to reply to @Damniel. As I'm saying before, their was obviously a motive to get rid of Geoni judging by the votes on day 1 and night vote. Therefore whoever was mafia must deem them a threat from their perspective.

oh you’re talking about the geoni votes. well, koopa, blooming and I voted geoni. so.

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

lol

Did anyone reply to this logic day 1 in a readable way?

i responded to blooming saying their reasoning was really flawed

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

I don't recall so, my memory is absolutely poor so please don't ask me this.

you also responded to blooming asking how they were scared of geoni but not me

 

[droqen]

you say i COULD do this and I COULD kill geoni for this reasoning, but you need to engage with my reads to prove that I am doing what I say mafia tend to do. Can you rationalize my actions as town motivated? or am everything Im doing mafia motivated?

good mafia work will always contain some stuff that is genuinely town motivated as long as it doesn't cause trouble for mafia; "is everything i'm doing mafia motivated" is too high of a bar to set, unless you're trying to catch the most extremely novice mafia player

 

[Antonio]

oh you’re talking about the geoni votes. well, koopa, blooming and I voted geoni. so.

Yeah and I'm thinking Koopa is suspicious because the lack of activity plus when he came in, he agreed with me regarding my statement on Geoni when in reality, I was just reaction testing for agreement regarding a lack worthy push. Both you and koopa agreed with me but you are the only one who backed up your opinion before I did the test.

I find his actions suspicious to say the least, where are you @Koopadude100.

 

[droqen]

do you think bianca is town? you need to at least engage with my reasoning for my suspicion so you can assert im merely just trying to get her killed. I am pointing out reasoning why she can be mafia, do you disagree with this reasoning?

re: my previous post, i think regardless of whether you're town or mafia you could present a perfectly airtight case that bianca is suspicious, if the evidence is there. the only difference is that, as mafia, you wouldn't do it to your partner. i will engage with your reasoning, but that's a separate issue from whether or not you're motivated to do so because you're town or because you're mafia

 

[Damniel]

Couldn't the same be said about Damniel and Bianca (and me? I'm not sure if I'm pro enough) aswell, they are pretty well experienced. Aren't damniel and Geoni exactly the same level of proness, why does Geoni worry you and not damniel?

this is just weak reasoning. you’re saying you don’t like voting off random players but you haven’t made an effort to give any reads on any players. if you are scared of geoni, at least make the effort to try to alignment read him

i don't have time to post unfortunately but i'm switching to b100ming. can explain my thoughts tomorrow, but they are nothing special.

Honestly I kinda get chaotic vibes from b100 just like last game so maybe that's towny, but I agree that the posts are questionable.

it looks like only antonio and I really engaged with blooming’s rationale for their vote. however, looking back it seems that catharina just agrees and doesn’t say much else?

if we look at the blooming wagon, we have geoni, droqen and betsy. Geoni is confirmed and I still think droqen and betsy are town, which means the whole wagon was town led. that doesn’t usually happen, but i have a hard time seeing either a mafia so i’m going to accept that for now

 

[droqen]

first part, I mean, the vast majority of the votes were made with weak reasoning. saying that everyone’s voting was meh i guess would make my voting open to everyone but I’ve clearly made townreads. I did not say I was suspicious of everyone for their votes, I said it was hard to read into them

this is reasonable. i think like above, it's less that it's untrue and more that i'm suspicious about the strategic value of saying it. as town, is it valuable to make a sweeping statement about the confusion and weakness of the situation? as mafia you would have significantly more to gain by taking that stance (i.e. by suggesting that the situation is confusing and hard to read)

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

(that is, by suggesting that, you might weaken the resolve of town who are trying to logic out the situation)

 

[Antonio]

i don't have time to post unfortunately but i'm switching to b100ming. can explain my thoughts tomorrow, but they are nothing special.

Did you ever explain this?

 

[droqen]

I knew that geoni wouldn’t be posting walls, but still, his posts felt very fluffy and lacked conviction to solve. Even if he wasn’t going to go hard into the game, I expected more. It just felt like he was asking empty questions with no real town motivation. His EoD was also really apathetic and sounded defeated which made me think it was just him. I knew that behaviorally he’d be different, but I was expecting a town geoni to still have stronger effort to solve. I was wrong obviously but I think i just had high expectations of him given i’ve known him so long. he was killed though so clearly he was doing some right, though

fair explanation, especially reading his EoD post. i don't know geoni nearly as well as you, so i really only took this one picture of him to go on. i have no sense of how different he is here than in other games, and it might be a dramatic difference.

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

Did you ever explain this?

i'm not sure. i'll explain my b100ming vote now (there are quotes but i'm not going back for them)

1. b100ming responds to day 1 bloodshed with "Strongly disagree"

2. b100ming then jumps on the geoni bandwagon with no immediately explanation, but offer to make their explanation in the future

3. i have it in my head that b100ming is the most suspicious to me, hands down; i have to go for irl reasons, but in the back of my mind plan to switch to b100ming if their response doesn't cut it for me, or if they never respond.

4. b100ming makes this
post

Ok. I’m in another game which is why I’m so inactive.
I voted geoni because to be honest he scares me. He’s a complete wild card because his ability to gather evidence could either be town aligned or mafia trying to get all the town to trust him. So I don’t like lynching random players d1 but I feel like geoni probably should go first because I don’t trust him even if he has a lot of info, I trust the info but don’t trust him.

5. i sneak a minute of free time to read it, give it a once-over, and decide it's not enough to overcome my gut feeling. i don't get a sense of why geoni being a bit of a wild card is strong enough to override the "strongly disagree;" it looks like it could be a wagon, and i think i trust geoni a bit at this point and would rather not vote for him anymore.

 

[Damniel]

this is reasonable. i think like above, it's less that it's untrue and more that i'm suspicious about the strategic value of saying it. as town, is it valuable to make a sweeping statement about the confusion and weakness of the situation? as mafia you would have significantly more to gain by taking that stance (i.e. by suggesting that the situation is confusing and hard to read)

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

(that is, by suggesting that, you might weaken the resolve of town who are trying to logic out the situation)

I tried to read into the votes and that’s what I initially got out of it. I am not stopping other people from having different interpretations of it (as even now we are talking more about the votes). it would be different if i said “everyone is suspicious from these votes and now I don’t trust anyone”, but I’m still trying to find town and foster collaboration. Like even if your and betsy’s votes weren’t the strongest, I can still rationalize you two as town based on seeing your thought progression and efforts to solve

 

[droqen]

oops, ****, it says i edited that post (#251) if i did edit it, it was out of habit, my apologies o_o;

 

[Damniel]

this is reasonable. i think like above, it's less that it's untrue and more that i'm suspicious about the strategic value of saying it. as town, is it valuable to make a sweeping statement about the confusion and weakness of the situation? as mafia you would have significantly more to gain by taking that stance (i.e. by suggesting that the situation is confusing and hard to read)

i think in that post i argue that even if the blooming wagon was a town elimination, I can’t blame the blooming votes for how blooming was behaving this game. blooming was not playing the day well at all, so I can’t blame people for voting them off

 

[Biancasbotique]

I wanna hear more from Betsy and of course Catharina.

 

[Antonio]

Alright, here's my thoughts. Honestly I'm not that surprised that the mafia went for him because he's a more experienced player and he's probably what most would consider a powerful player, though the mafia could have gone for a newer player like me or Catherina. As for who might have killed him, I'm thinking maybe droqen and Bianca. I say that because both of them haven't been as active, and maybe Bianca is inactive because she is on the mafia chat while droqen is trying his best to cover it up.

Could you elaborate on this suspicion, why do you think Bianca is staying in chat the entire time? Why would you even assume that?

 

[Damniel]

oops, ****, it says i edited that post (#251) if i did edit it, it was out of habit, my apologies o_o;

in this version of the forums, post merging often leads to it saying it was edited. it happens a lot

 

[droqen]

i think in that post i argue that even if the blooming wagon was a town elimination, I can’t blame the blooming votes for how blooming was behaving this game. blooming was not playing the day well at all, so I can’t blame people for voting them off

okay, i can see what you're saying through this lens - cleaning up a little like "this stuff is irrelevant, let's not waste our time on it"

 

[Antonio]

Well that sucks
In any case I want to hear more from @Biancasbotique since they weren't as active before and now that geoni is dead I want to hear their thoughts

What exactly do you want to see from Bianca, particularly?

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2021

i want to hear more of your thoughts too

I slight town read damniel for this post, he openly acknowledges the lack of koopa posts aswell. If anything, I find it a bit hypocritical for koopa to call out Bianca when he hasn't been as active aswell.

 

[Damniel]

actually, what I find most suspicious about bianca is her lack of any explanation in her town reads. this comes off as not looking to find town to work with (which I think town finding each other is more powerful in the early game than just making cases). mafia and town will both make red reads, of course, but mafia is significantly less inclined to form town cores because it will ultimately lead to them being caught out