duckykate
your heart is a museum of everyone you've loved
das right
Pro-life or Pro-choice
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das right
Pro-choice. Always been and will always be.
I don't, and won't understand pro-life folks.
If you're a pro-life man, well as they say "no uterus, no opinion", and if you're a pro-life woman, just... do not use abortion and mind your own business.
Women do not abort for fun. Never. If a women doesn't feel like she can raise the kid or take care of it in the best conditions, it's her choice to be able to perform an abortion.
Pro-life people only care about the foetus but suddenly dissapear once the baby is born in poor conditions.
Like there's no debate to have or anything, just mind your business, it's not your body, it's not your baby, it's not your life.
Stop lying to yourself, you don't even care a single bit about any of those aborted foetuses.
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Exactly, thank you.
Someone in my close family had to have an abortion, and it was extremely hard for her, and everyone around her too.
It's not a fun thing you do during a girl's night or whatever.
Let women decide what is right for them.
I don't, and won't understand pro-life folks.
If you're a pro-life man, well as they say "no uterus, no opinion", and if you're a pro-life woman, just... do not use abortion and mind your own business.
Women do not abort for fun. Never. If a women doesn't feel like she can raise the kid or take care of it in the best conditions, it's her choice to be able to perform an abortion.
Pro-life people only care about the foetus but suddenly dissapear once the baby is born in poor conditions.
Like there's no debate to have or anything, just mind your business, it's not your body, it's not your baby, it's not your life.
Stop lying to yourself, you don't even care a single bit about any of those aborted foetuses.
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Exactly, thank you.
Someone in my close family had to have an abortion, and it was extremely hard for her, and everyone around her too.
It's not a fun thing you do during a girl's night or whatever.
Let women decide what is right for them.
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MelloDimensions
Fine like whine
Pro-choice
Here's a nifty little diagram for how pro-"life" is truly handled.
Here's a nifty little diagram for how pro-"life" is truly handled.
LottieandSoul
Senior Member
I'm pro-choice.
I was raised by parents who don't like children, and though they were and are fully capable of raising me and giving me everything necessary to survive and more, it shines through that they don't and never have liked children, and thus have always treated me either lesser or as a full fledged adult. Just because someone can physically have/take care of children doesn't mean they should.
I was raised by parents who don't like children, and though they were and are fully capable of raising me and giving me everything necessary to survive and more, it shines through that they don't and never have liked children, and thus have always treated me either lesser or as a full fledged adult. Just because someone can physically have/take care of children doesn't mean they should.
Sprinkles_penguin
Senior Member
And you call us pro-life people, closed-minded? This is wrong already. Whenever you're trying to debate something you should always be open-minded to other people's opinion. If you just neglect to listen other points of view, then your opinion, statements and arguments must be overriden as you're already initially stating you refuse to learn more about it. You can't go in a debate with a negligent attitude.
Are you really denying my right to comment on an issue that concerns us all as a society based on an aspect of me that I did not decide? That mentality is just too wrong already. Are you really telling me to look away and act indifferent to the mass infanticide that is being committed every day? If you think you should, then it would also give me the right as a man to act indifferent to world hunger, sexual harassment victims, war etc. A baby is also a man's problem as half of the genetic material of that baby is the father's. The fact that it's inside your body doesn't mean you can decide it's fate. If you really think men should have no opinion on this, all abortion-permissive laws on the world must be repealed because it was men who promulgated them. I just think it's highly discriminatory that you don't think I can have an opinion on this, just because I was born a man. Keeping men away from this discussion is very retrograde and reminds me of the times that women weren't allowed to vote or decide just because they were born women. Keeping us away from it would justify nonsense stuff like keeping women away from other topics and stating that it's not women's business.
Is it really her choice to decide on someone else's fate? You're denying him the basic right to live. Abortion because of avoiding more kids to live poor or painful lives would justify mass infanticide around the world, just to avoid their suffering, you know? That's extremely classist because you only want rich people to have children.
I do care about mass infanticide being committed very day because I have something called humanity?
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Umm, I have a question for you. Do you really think abortion clinics care about women? No, they don't, they just care about money. They are more give like "pay me 200 dollars to perform a procedure on you that I didn't even talk to you about the process, risks, pros and cons of" rather than "we care about women's rights".
because I refuse to learn
if you have a penis and your "pro-life" stance is about being anti-abortion instead of taking steps to help prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies (of which essentially all of are entirely 100% mens' fault), then everything you have to say on the subject is completely worthless and you should just sit down and shut up
also, a random clump of cells (of which is the period the majority of abortions are performed) has no life to speak of. sorry
if you have a penis and your "pro-life" stance is about being anti-abortion instead of taking steps to help prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies (of which essentially all of are entirely 100% mens' fault), then everything you have to say on the subject is completely worthless and you should just sit down and shut up
also, a random clump of cells (of which is the period the majority of abortions are performed) has no life to speak of. sorry
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i've been neglecting to comment on this thread, and i'm going to withhold my own opinions because i tend to stay away from political discussion on the forums now. however, i genuinely can't tell if you're serious or just trolling anymore because abortion clinics actually do exactly this. they will not perform an abortion unless the patient is one hundred percent sure of the risks involved and one hundred percent sure that abortion is the route they wish to take.
on another note, if we're going to be talking about the costs of medical procedures, we shouldn't be singling out one procedure while leaving out those that are far more frequently performed. note these costs are averages and US-centric:
spending a day in the hospital: ~$5000 to ~$10,000
MRI: ~$1000
appendix removal: ~$16,000
giving birth (natural): ~$11,000
c-section: ~$16,000
cataract surgery (per eye): ~$3,500
calling an ambulance: anywhere from ~$200 to ~$2000
i'm also not sure where you got this information:
abortion clinics will charge more for an abortion during the third trimester because they are much more difficult to perform late and the process typically takes several days, it has nothing to do with the actual physical size of the fetus. third trimester abortions are also rarely ever performed, and are only done if the pregnancy is life-threatening to either party.
Oldcatlady
A young cat lady
I’m definitely pro choice. I would honestly be horrified if I had to keep a baby I was not ready or unable to raise. I also think that no baby should be born with abuse parents that didn’t want them, it is entirely up to them to decide about their body not outsiders.
That being said, I still think that this is a sensitive issue and people’s belief won’t change just from my points so we should be open minded and accept people have different opinions on this matter. Some of my really religious friend stand by the more pro-life spectrum and while I don’t agree with it I can see where they are coming from
That being said, I still think that this is a sensitive issue and people’s belief won’t change just from my points so we should be open minded and accept people have different opinions on this matter. Some of my really religious friend stand by the more pro-life spectrum and while I don’t agree with it I can see where they are coming from
Sprinkles_penguin
Senior Member
But I never said I was against pregnancy prevention, did I?
Also, if you refuse to learn about other points of view, then everything you have to say on the subject is completely worthless and you should just sit down and shut up because when debating you should always try to see the topic from different points of view.
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Umm, I've read a lot about women who performed abortion and were never presented any of the risks of it. I actually know one woman which her doctors straightforward took her to perform the abortion.
I'm sorry, but the price I listed was one of the cheapest ways to perform an abortion. Abortions can cost a lot more. And, I don't really get what does appendix removal or cataract surgery have to do with abortion?
I've heard about lots of abortion clinics which charge based on the fetus's size.
can i ask where you've read those stories? if they did happen they definitely are not the usual case.
abortions can indeed cost a lot more; late/third trimester abortions can be $8000 to even $15,000. however, your typical first term abortion is generally anywhere from $0 to $1000. i mentioned a variety of medical procedures to showcase that just because a service is costly, that doesn't necessarily mean its providers are money hungry and don't care for its patients. my apologies if that wasn't what you were trying to say.
which clinics are charging patients based on fetus size? abortion prices are generally based on the duration of the pregnancy, the income of the patient and their insurance, and of course where they live.
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It’s the same as outlawing suicide; it’s going to happen regardless of whether it’s endorsed or not, so why not make it safer and more available than the alternatives? The only thing I disagree with is the way they don’t take into account the father’s desires. I think they should have a say in it too.
other points of view by people that have zero actual stake in the topic and yet act as if they're on some morally superior high ground aren't even worth giving the time of day
like I'm not gonna ask a marketing engineer about advice on house architecture, and you're just the marketing engineer here
Sprinkles_penguin
Senior Member
It’s the planned Parenthood clinic in Bryan, Texas. You should really read the story of a woman named Abby Johnson who worked for like eight years at an abortion clinic. She even stated that not only does her abortion clinic work like that, but many others.
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See? Your ideas are so retrograde, this reminds me of what men used to tell women back then when women weren’t allowed to vote smh
cursory research just gave me someone that spreads misinformation and propaganda
Sprinkles_penguin
Senior Member
In what statements do you base this highly arbitrary statement?
making a word salad isn't a good look, fyi
duckykate
your heart is a museum of everyone you've loved
yes
also hmmm I wonder how it feels to be denied something based on something you didn't decide
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Sprinkles_penguin
Senior Member
What does it mean to make something salad? Don't you mean like salty?
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Sorry, but I'm very bad at sarcasm. Is it really sarcasm?
i am actually familiar with abby johnson's case but for those who aren't, abby claims to have witnessed a third-trimester ultrasound abortion which horrified her so much that she left the planned parenthood clinic she worked at and became a pro-life activist. she also claims her boss pushed her to "perform more abortions", which many people, including her close friend have deemed untrue. records also debunk her claims of witnessing said abortion. her friend says the whole entire story is just abby trying to get back at her boss who fired her.
it's an absurd claim of hers that she was pressured to perform more abortions as it is, but especially when discussing planned parenthood. planned parenthood is a non-profit (abby claims they are for profit, which is false, and one of many reasons to take what she says with a grain of salt) organization that not only provides many services other than abortions, but in relation to abortion/pregnancy they also provide sexual education, a number of contraceptives, pregnancy tests, adoption services and referrals, and even childbirth classes. abortions are actually one of their less frequently provided services. knowing this, abby's claims seem very vindictive and fabricated. if this was all true we would definitely hear about it more.
this is a good read on the abby johnson case: https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/fact-fiction-pro-life-celebrity-abby-johnson-unplanned/
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