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Mafia TBT Mafia: Renaissance - Game Thread [ENDGAME - Town Wins]

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@Locket why did u think they were masons tho? like i'm just curious for future games, what is an indication of two ppl being masons?
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When I wrote that I was catching up one thread I had just gotten home and was in the middle of reading the NL stuff. By the time I was actually in the thread NL was definitely not happening. I finished reading the thread when there were 5 minutes 9-10 minutes left. At that point there is nothing more I could have done to defend myself (it would be beating a dead horse). I'm not sure if you have read the whoel thread, but I thought it was kind of obvious.

it doesn't matter if it's beating a dead horse, shawo was convincing people, he made a lot of arguments, even if it was futile you should have said something, there's a lot that can be gained in 10 minutes for future discussion so i don't buy that. not obvious to me
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jacob at least tried and u didn't, i should have voted u : (
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i am potentially being emotional bc jacob is my friend and i feel bad but the more i think about it the more u seemed just so weird and bad day 1 ugh
 
@Locket why did u think they were masons tho? like i'm just curious for future games, what is an indication of two ppl being masons?
Sheabae's first (?) post was formatted in that stanza-like format, much like Punchy's. Initially, I thought it had something to do with them being on a team together with a condition that was something like "oh you two can only talk like this."
I don't think it's that anymore, though.
 
There is literally nothing I could have done in that 10 minutes to change anyone's mind, especially since I wasn't sure about the Jacob lynch so I was trying to just flop the wagon over to someone I had a stronger gut feeling about (oath). I was panicking just as much as anyone else and there were a lot of things I wanted to say in a short time. In the end, I really didn't care if I was lynched or not because seeing Antonio and Daniel be so wrong about me would have been hilarious to watch anyway.
 
if u rly didn't care u wouldn't have put the nail in the coffin hehe, but ok! noted

and i can think for myself thanks hayden...
 
I pushed at the Heyden lynch but nobody bit and resolved myself onto deciding between top wagons.
Also why were you even voting me I don’t recall you scumreading me..? Unless it was rxn but I was asleep zzz
 
I’m always wary of people who say “in all honesty” or “to be honest” because that indicates they may have reason to not be honest.

say tbh a lot so eh its more out of habit

I am a lot more comfortable this game if I know there are at least a couple eyes of suspicion on you.

i think that reluctance to trust is a reasonable thing. there's no confirmed scum flip yet so no one should be completely trusted and town locked

i'm still not convinced trundle is town lol, then again i am usually wrong. he's smarter than how he's been playing, something isn't right

can you explain your vote with jacob again? I remember you weighing in on Trundle's quietness. what made you commit to jacob over trundle?
 
Are we still pursuing Trundle and Evan omg, just townlock them already guys
I mean I'm still not entirely convinced Trundle is town. I think I've dropped them from like 50% scumread to maybe like 5% but still.
I never thought Evan wasn't town tho TBH, always kinda townleaned 'em
 
say tbh a lot so eh its more out of habit



i think that reluctance to trust is a reasonable thing. there's no confirmed scum flip yet so no one should be completely trusted and town locked



can you explain your vote with jacob again? I remember you weighing in on Trundle's quietness. what made you commit to jacob over trundle?

idk, i was caught up in the panic, i thought his defences were weak but at least he had a defence unlike trundle so i was stupid. i was also really wary that he scum read me from the very beginning and didn't relent once, i played a lot with jacob, i expected him to know my town meta so i thought he was pushing for a lynch on me bc i'm a bit weaker, in hindsight i'm dumb, i just didn't think he was playing as his normal self i guess while i know trundle has played like that in previous games and had been town so i was using that as a reason to trust trundle but now i'm kind of nervous he's doing this on purpose (unless he does just decide to be annoying day 1 on both games as town, in which case i'd appreciate if he didn't ever again bc it's confusing)
 
I don't have any really strong opinions on anyone right now, but I will go through everyone's posts and read EoD againand post thoughts after that.

seems like Locket is still committed to not making a strong stance yet. i think with this continued pressure she would've felt forced to make reads if she was scum. i also think that the mason speculation is more town as it was kinda out there and I doubt a scum team would advise saying that
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mog, you had a lot more confidence in mid D1 but that seems to have gone away now since most of your posts end if saying "sorry if im being dumb" or "im stupid". I think you've been playing reasonably and read you as town, but you need to take back that confidence. doubting is okay but don't blame it on your own ability
 
yeah i'm sorry, i'll stop being so defeatist, i just feel bad bc my vote was the last on jacob (except for trundle but it was his life on the line), i know it wasn't my fault as such but it's still not a nice feeling, i don't think i've ever had a correct read on day 1 haha
 
seems like Locket is still committed to not making a strong stance yet. i think with this continued pressure she would've felt forced to make reads if she was scum. i also think that the mason speculation is more town as it was kinda out there and I doubt a scum team would advise saying that
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mog, you had a lot more confidence in mid D1 but that seems to have gone away now since most of your posts end if saying "sorry if im being dumb" or "im stupid". I think you've been playing reasonably and read you as town, but you need to take back that confidence. doubting is okay but don't blame it on your own ability
seems like Locket is still committed to not making a strong stance yet. i think with this continued pressure she would've felt forced to make reads if she was scum. i also think that the mason speculation is more town as it was kinda out there and I doubt a scum team would advise saying that
Ooh that’s a good point. If she truly thought they were masons (aka PRs) I think the first instinct as mafia would be to bring it up in scum chat as values information, not publicise it in the thread?

Definitely still null on Locket though, will look over tomorrow.
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valued*
Too tired for this goodnight
 
I think something that I'm really struggling with this game is the fact that there are 20 people and I've probably only seen posts from about 16-17.


I have seen a lot of really weird things happen this game. And I don't think any of it is inherently mafia.

So I'm gonna talk about what really peeves me from a few players.

1. Off the cuff remarks about scumreading a player for a single specific thing they did.
I'm much happier with people who just say "shawo is maf cuz they're weird" than "shawo is maf for not answering questions."
Obviously I don't mean that exact scenario, but stuff like this keeps happening throughout the game.

I think the difference between calling someone maf for an action is being able to compare it to "why an action wouldn't have been done by the town."

2. People who voted differently from what they were saying in the thread. I know this ones probably impossible because of the panic on d1. I slept, and thought about it some more, and sorting mafia who was using the panic/town who was panicking is definitely going to be a struggle for me.

3. People seem to struggle holding onto their reads. I don't have a specific reason for saying this, but when I reread the thread, it doesn't feel like how someone reads the game matches what they're saying. I think I'm going to be looking at this reason, because in my mind, you should be able to identify what you think of a player... just by thinking about them. So even if you completely flip your read on a player, it should probably be justified.

These are probably the 3 things that set me off the most about any specific scumread I have. But that doesn't inherently mean that any of these actions are scummy. Except the last one. If this game wasn't 20 people I don't think there would be an excuse for the last one.

Anyways I'm in a zoom class so I'll work on this some moer.
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I mean if I'm wrong about townleaning anyone who voted Jacob it's Evan and he's in really really deep or tae who is the weakest of my townleans among the Jacob voters but it's just not where I'm at with them yet?
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Shawo which lost are you referring to that you're saying I denied outright?

Also I did talk about Jacob voters in my vote analysis. I've had to repeat that so maybe you should reread it?

Your analysis was really messy, you talked about everyones votes but didn't talk about the overall vote pattern, which was my main concern. To me your conclusion read as "everyone voted jacob for a good enough reason, so I townlean them" and I don't really think that's a train of thought that's... a way to play.


I think the concerns I brought up were valid but wording is not my strong suit.
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Also @f11 and mogyay. I'm definitely sure that reading someone just because everyone else reads them a certain way has no value. You're absolutely entitled to your own reads go wild.
 
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Emolga is definitely a less prominent voice in d1 and so I immediately have to question the joining of a fastly accumulating wagon of someone I still townread. When I ISO Emolga though they air their first suspicion on Trundle an hour before the first votecount. It comes a bit unexplained at first. Random aside I like #441.

That being said @Emolga59 why did you vote Trundle following posts where you said you wanted more conversation on other people with votes and not just Trundle? And then disappear until 25 minutes left before EoD? That's suspicious movement imo.

The reason why I voted for Trundle was that I wanted to play it safe for D1 lynch and the safest move I could possibly make was to vote for Trundle. Why you may ask? Well, I already did seem suspicious after my rqs and I didn't want to cause more of a scene for voting someone else with no reason at all because that would definitely put a target on my back to be the next lynch. Trundle had already said quite a few suspicious things so it wouldn't be that hard/difficult to explain my vote if it needed explaining.

I disappeared until 25 minutes left until EoD because I had made already my decision and later on decided to come back to see how the votes are coming in. Only to find out that a lot of people were starting to vote Jacob.
 
Also on my reread I feel really bad for missing a day of this game because everyones read of me definitely consisted on me just not saying anything.

F11:
Pros: Crazy good tone.
Really, really nice posts that just don’t really feel mafia-aligned.

Cons: Kinda a weak voice

Mogyay:
Pros: Crazy good tone!!

Cons: Weak voice
Cons: Low self confidence, so a lot of posts come out a little back-trackey.

Geoni #672 lol
Pros: High, High effort posts
Pros: Lack of organization in their posts which actually feels more towny than not

Cons: A lot of confidence in reads I would consider weak.
Overview: I probably gutted down a lot of things I would say about geoni into that one sentence. But I’ll word it another way. Seeing how Geoni votes through the game will absolutely be the best way to read him. Depending on how he follows through with reads he has, especially with the way he justifies them will solve a large, large part of the game. I really feel like Geoni just townread everyone who voted Jacob “because they had a good enough reason to”
And in my mind that’s a cop out to making an actual read/potentially deflecting off his partner.
I am going to assume Geoni is mafia for a different analysis so stay tuned!

This ones fun! Tae lurked basically all day and comes out with a fully fleshed out list of reads

Except for the fact that I just… don’t really agree with a lot of the things they’ve posted.
The more I read Tae, the more they read like lurking Mafia. Keeping up with the thread, posting occasionally, not really going in on any specific read except for when it’s convenient. I’ll definitely need to update this more.

For example, in comparison to lockets post early on in the game. Lockets post just felt way more… organized. Tae just felt like they were overcompensating for a lack of effort.

#375 lul

Tentatively leaving Tae in the scum pile.

I’ve caught back up to where I start talking.

A lot of people have said “The lynch gives a lot of information.”
So I am looking for those people to be typing about what reads they’ve gained from the town lynch. Not trying to be passive aggressive. These two players are mostly locket/f11.

Antonio is playing… really badly in my opinion. I feel like the death tunnel on Trundle is both undeserved and also unhelpful. I also understand how it could happen. The only reason why I backed off my read on Antonio completely was that they seemed to misunderstand a point in the game and was willing to compromise. However, due to the fact that the entirety of their game sits on ONE point. I would still consider them /kinda/ scummy.

On the flip side I didn’t really think skarmoury was mafia.

Punchy Pros: Probably has the most concise/accurate points
Has a viewpoint of the game I expect all town to have, but he’s the only one who really does.

Cons: Has some really, really weird posts too.
All in all, I would say that Punchy is probably one of my hardest townreads here. If anything, having really, really weird posts is probably one of the signs that he’s town. It’s not like he’s mafia viciously formatting every post until it’s perfect.

Panda.
So, a lot of people have said that panda is scummy through the course of this game, and… I.... disagree. Like, vividly. I know I said towards the end of the day that Panda softed PR, and I take that back, but still on a reread I don’t really feel as if Panda did anything viciously wrong other than push people other people were pushing. In fact I feel like they have some pretty high quality/low word posts.

Trundle! Trundle is the player who shares the most reads with me, I wonder if that just means we think similarly, or because he agrees with me.
I had him as a tr for most of d1 due to vote patterns, but after the flip I had to vote Trundle there.
I still think he’s town though. As a rule of thumb, if someone shares reads with you, and they can explain it, they’re probably town.

Damniel. Man. Your posts are a mess dude. You have TOO many reads. And I genuinely mean that. I think the way you convey your reads makes them come off way stronger than they are. I think you actually interact well with a lot of ppl. I think I said at some point “Stop asking useless questions.” You interact too much. Especially at the point in the game I think we were at, you were asking questions instead of reading yourself.

I don’t think you deserve to be townread for the way you play the game, although I definitely understand why people townread you/how you could be town.

I guess putting it another way, tonally you’re good, but it feels like you’re all over the place.
I similarly sniped you as mafia due to a really strong read on someone I thought was hard town. This seems like a repeat of last game.

This is getting really long. But I think I’m going to sort out my oath and evan read.

I missed a lot of people. That’s life. I hit my harder scumreads and harder townreads. I’m not confident, but starting from now I’m just going to go hard. Better to be wrong than let someone lynch your townread :)

EVAN. Apparently Evan is just naturally emotional in games, I’m going to take that as an indication that EMOTION ISN’T HOW YOU READ Evan.

I think in an earlier post I said that Evan’s reaction to my posts after night were bad - they suck, but they aren’t inherently mafia.

A large issue I have with Evan, is that I felt that the way they played at the end of d1 was hysterical (not an insult), and they didn’t feel the need to back off from that. The difference in my eyes was probably easiest to compare between antonio and Evan. That being said. It isn’t an indication of HARD scum. There’s actually a second reason I’m backing off here, and I’ll get to that.


This probably deserves a post of it’s own, but I think I’m going to place it here.

I currently believe the maf team is likely to be Geoni + Tae + 2 others.

I also think Oath (and by extension evan) are likely to be town.
Why, shawo, do you have this read after all of these posts.

Voting patterns. If you look at Geoni’s analysis of the voting patterns, he says that he currently doesn’t think anyone who’s voting Jacob is currently mafia WITH the exception of Evan/Tae. Evan is also the player that I was pushing the hardest at the time. So geoni’s in a position where he’s being LISTENED to, he got town to lynch his d1 read. So… if you’re Geoni. What would you do. Protect your partner. So why specifically tae/Evan? Because he SPECIFICALLY made an exception of Tae/Evan. That’s generally peak mafia on partner interactions. BUT, when I look at Evan I can see a reason as to why Geoni as mafia might want to get Evan lynched there. I actually don’t believe Tae and Evan are both mafia with Geoni.

Following that, how does any of that mean that Oath is town?

If you read Geoni’s posts, they are CLEARLY setting up for a push onto Oath. Like, very clearly. They’ve done almost everything except say it. Which I think is pretty clear indication that Oath is town.

Yes, I’m aware that this is a really, really large jump from the reads that I usually make. But I said I would give my scum reads before the end of the night.

I also know that Oath looks like lynchbait, and I think because of that, he attracts people who are mafia to vote him. I still stand by one person voting Trundle being mafia.

So I would probably put mafia as something like…

Geoni/Tae/(One voting Trundle)/Wildcard

I’m actually fairly confident that all of my strong townreads are town.

Cya’ll on the flipside.
 
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lmao i find it kind of silly that i get pressured to make a read by multiple people after i stated i had none on D1 bc i had nothing but gut feelings for no real readon, and then when i make the reads so people shut up about it i’m sus for my “out of no where full reads list” like if that makes me inherently mafia that’s ****ing funny. like y’all i really don’t know what to tell you.

i know people are gonna sheep the **** out of shawo for whatever reason but you claimed a weak PR role RIGHT out of the thread opening, sat quietly for 2/3 of D1, not even in the thread not even lurking only to show up out of the blue before EoD screaming nonstop about a NL.

people seem to trust you but dude your play style SCARES me. i don’t like it. it makes 0 sense to me why you’d be as hectic and flamboyant as you are.
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anyway i just woke up and i need to read some **** so i guess i’ll see y’all on the flip side :’)
 
bro I wasn't here on d1.
Also no one reacted to my post.
this is the first time I've said anything.

but your reaction is like this?

I think it means I'm probably right.
 
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