LGBTQA - Discussion and support.

[remiaphasia]

OK, wow. This sort of thing is exactly what I was talking about when I was saying how some bisexuals have zero sympathy for pansexuals.

1) There is a difference between being attracted to two genders and being attracted to any/all.
So again, if someone wants to use a label (pan) that has not been debated to describe their lack of a "preference", then that's their choice.
If someone who is only attracted to two genders and wants to use bi to mean attracted to two genders, then that's their choice.

2) Pansexuality erases no one. It does not claim to replace bi as a label.

Are there pansexual identified people who speak as though they're 'better' than bisexuals due to their lack of a preference? Yes.
But that belief is not universal.

3) For someone who had (needlessly) argued with me that "not ALL cis/straight people are bad!", you seem to have a problem with negatively stereotyping pansexuals.


And lastly; Lose the hostility and hate and just leave pansexuals alone. They're not hurting anyone.

Care to point out where the hostility and hate was?

Also, your first point perfectly illustrates my point about definitions of pansexuality being redefinitions of bisexuality. You even admit yourself that someone attracted to everyone regardless of gender could choose whichever label they wanted -- because it makes no difference. They mean the same thing. There are bisexuals with preferences regarding intersex and transgender people and there are also pansexuals with the same preferences. That was my point.

I made no universal claims about people who identify as pansexual either...the only person with the needless hostility here is you

 

[Mephisto Pheles]

Care to point out where the hostility and hate was?

Also, your first point perfectly illustrates my point about definitions of pansexuality being redefinitions of bisexuality. You even admit yourself that someone attracted to everyone regardless of gender could choose whichever label they wanted -- because it makes no difference. They mean the same thing. There are bisexuals with preferences regarding intersex and transgender people and there are also pansexuals with the same preferences. That was my point.

I made no universal claims about people who identify as pansexual either...the only person with the needless hostility here is you

The way you generalize and accuse pansexuals of erasing bisexuals gives the impression that you hate them.

And no, they aren't the same thing. They share one thing in common.

Also, while there might be some pansexuals who tend to be attracted to one gender more than another, if they actually had a preference that excluded a gender entirely.. that wouldn't be pansexuality.
And that's where bisexuality comes in - it, unlike pansexuality, can exclude genders - that's why they're separate labels.


*sigh* But you know what? Just forget I said anything. I'm not going to say anything further on the matter, because obviously I can't say anything LGBT+ related without it turning into a "debate".

 

[remiaphasia]

The way you generalize and accuse pansexuals of erasing bisexuals gives the impression that you hate them.

And no, they aren't the same thing. They share one thing in common.

Also, while there might be some pansexuals who tend to be attracted to one gender more than another, if they actually had a preference that excluded a gender entirely.. that wouldn't be pansexuality.
And that's where bisexuality comes in - it, unlike pansexuality, can exclude genders - that's why they're separate labels.


*sigh* But you know what? Just forget I said anything. I'm not going to say anything further on the matter, because obviously I can't say anything LGBT+ related without it turning into a "debate".

It's not even really a debate if you can't support the claims that you make. Just pointing that out, you didn't give an example of how I hate pansexuals or where I generalized them.

 

[Titi]

Yeah, I never understood the difference between bi and pan either.
I never seem to find any solid explanations as to how they are different... It seems pretty blurry.

 

[remiaphasia]

Yeah, I never understood the difference between bi and pan either.
I never seem to find any solid explanations as to how they are different... It seems pretty blurry.

Like I said, I think a lot of the people who insist that there is a meaningful difference have some internal reflection to do about why they need that to be the case. Of the people I know who identify as pansexual, they do so not because they feel the label doesn't represent them well, but because of other social reasons.

 

[Celestefey]

I just assumed that being pansexual meant you were attracted to anyone regardless of their gender identity or their sexual orientation or whatever. ;-; I mean I thought being bisexual was that you liked both males and females, but that was... It? I mean the prefix "bi" means "2" so I'm just assuming that's what it means. I don't know. You could argue that being pansexual and bisexual are the same anyway. I just don't get the difference. I know I'm definitely not heterosexual but I've never romantically been interested in another female, just sexually. But at the same time, I'm not completely blocking that option out, because I mean, I only really started thinking about my sexual orientation when I was dating a boy/interested in a boy, so I might find out now that I am romantically interested in females. I don't feel like I am forced to put a label on it though or even obliged to tell anyone because I just like whoever I like, really. ;-; I don't know, I mean I would date absolutely anyone, regardless of their gender identity, sexual orientation or whatever, so does that make me pansexual? I don't know, just reading this whole debate has confused me even more. I'm just gonna be me and I'll like whoever I like.

 

[Titi]

Yeah if you like males and females then usually you also don't mind if a male identifies as a female or vice versa or if people are genderfluid or trans and whatnot. Which is pretty much the same as pan right?

 

[remiaphasia]

Yeah if you like males and females then usually you also don't mind if a male identifies as a female or vice versa or if people are genderfluid or trans and whatnot. Which is pretty much the same as pan right?

I mean yeah. That's basically my own sexuality in a nutshell lol. I don't care about gender at all. There's nothing about bisexuality that says that you are strictly confined to only "conventional" gender options or w/e.

 

[Lady Timpani]

Yeah, I never understood the difference between bi and pan either.
I never seem to find any solid explanations as to how they are different... It seems pretty blurry.

Generally bisexuality is being interested in two (two or more, according to some people) genders, while pansexuality is defined as being attracted to all genders.

The labels of other people honestly don't affect me, but I have seen some contention lately between the two, which I find interesting. I guess I just thought that bi and pan people wouldn't go at it because their labels are so similar and a lot of people dismiss them as fads.

 

[Alice]

Yeah, I never understood the difference between bi and pan either.
I never seem to find any solid explanations as to how they are different... It seems pretty blurry.

A simple explanation would be that a pan-sexual doesn't see divides when it comes to sex, or gender; it's more about who the individual than it is about what the individual is. Bisexuality still has that divide between male and female, wherein gender/sex still matters. A pan-sexual shouldn't keep gender/sex preferences because it goes against the nature of pan-sexuality; whereas it's perfectly within the realm of bisexuality to date both, but prefer another.

 

[remiaphasia]

A simple explanation would be that a pan-sexual doesn't see divides when it comes to sex, or gender; it's more about who the individual than it is about what the individual is. Bisexuality still has that divide between male and female, wherein gender/sex still matters. A pan-sexual shouldn't keep gender/sex preferences because it goes against the nature of pan-sexuality; whereas it's perfectly within the realm of bisexuality to date both, but prefer another.

That's a really political definition though, especially where you say that pansexuals shouldn't have gender related preferences (and lots of pansexual identified people do so, there's that).

Also again, this definition depends on a definition of bisexuality that isn't necessarily true.

 

[Titi]

But, I mean, most people who consider themselves bi are open to all sorts of gender identities and orientations. I really don't think anyone would say "hum only stricly girls and boys and not the rest kthanks". In fact I kinda find it lame that people would think that and feel the need to create a separate label because of it. Now that I think of it it's pretty rude towards bisexuals, seems almost like looking down on them.

 

[Alice]

That's a really political definition though, especially where you say that pansexuals shouldn't have gender related preferences (and lots of pansexual identified people do so, there's that).

Also again, this definition depends on a definition of bisexuality that isn't necessarily true.

If you prefer a certain gender, than you're not gender-blind, now are you? That's like saying you don't care what someone orders for you at a restaurant and then coming back with "oh, but I would've rathered ...". There's a difference between being and identifying as.

 

[remiaphasia]

If you prefer a certain gender, than you're not gender-blind, now are you? That's like saying you don't care what someone orders for you at a restaurant and then coming back with "oh, but I would've rathered ...". There's a difference between being and identifying as.

Ever heard of a no true scotsman argument?

 

[Alice]

Ever heard of a no true scotsman argument?

ever heard of the fallacy fallacy?

 

[remiaphasia]

ever heard of the fallacy fallacy?

Yes, I have

But seriously, you're actually committing a "no true scotsman" by asserting that people who don't fit your interpretation of pansexuality aren't legitimately pansexual.

 

[Alice]

Yes, I have

But seriously, you're actually committing a "no true scotsman" by asserting that people who don't fit your interpretation of pansexuality aren't legitimately pansexual.

I never said it was my definition, exactly. I'm just going by what pansexuals have told me in the past. There's literally no point to being pansexual if you aren't a pansexual. If sex isn't irrelevant to you, then what's the point of identifying as one? To fit into a crowd? To seem more accepting and understanding to others? If you don't want a title, don't take a title, but to assume a title that essentially isn't what you are? That's just misrepresenting your interests.

 

[Sir Takoya]

I've been a tomboy/genderqueer for almost three years now, and now I'm about to be 18 and going into college. I haven't had a single boyfriend because of my personality, and I think it may be worse now that I'm adult because guys only seem to want pretty pretty girls. I consider myself a boy, even though I'm female so in a way I'm kind of like a gay person in a girl's body. My parents want me to change my style by giving me these little 'hints' on how to dress. It's like they want me to change myself because of some number. It's really annoying.

 

[remiaphasia]

I've been a tomboy for almost three years now, and now I'm about to be 18 and going into college. I haven't had a single boyfriend because of my personality, and I think it may be worse now that I'm adult because guys only seem to want pretty pretty girls. My parents want me to change my style by giving me these little 'hints' on how to dress. It's like they want me to change myself because of some number. It's really annoying.

If you don't feel comfortable changing your style, you should tell your parents that. Are you moving away for college?

 

[Sir Takoya]

If you don't feel comfortable changing your style, you should tell your parents that. Are you moving away for college?

Nope, I'm staying here for college. Still going to University though.