Obama's Immigrant Plan

[Brackets]

I agree with this.
Although life may be terrible in your country or whatever, I find it best to stay in your country.
When my grandparents were younger, the conditions were terrible in France. For instance, My grandpa lived in a very poor family, and they only ate bread. However, he never desired to go the USA or a richer country. There was WWII at that time, he lost a friend because of the bombings. That never made him leave his country.

I don't know... But I find it very saddening that many people just run away from their country. If you guys know "the memory of Love" of Aminatta Forna, the book shows well that it is better to stay in your country. Kai (a guy in the book) wanted to go to the USA, but at the end decides to stay in Sierra Leone which I believe is the best solution.

I bet you'd think differently if you lived in Syria or Afghanistan etc.

 

[cIementine]

immigrants come to countries like UK and US for a better quality of life, but if they're going to get that quality of life, I believe they should do so legally. If they do so illegally, I think the situation should be viewed like most crimes: Those who steal, kill, or break the law should be punished.

 

[Meadows]

I live in America, and honestly I don't care. Obama sucks and always will.

 

[Cory]

No. Kick them all out.

 

[oath2order]

I live in America, and honestly I don't care. Obama sucks and always will.

So theoretically if he ended all suffering universally he would still suck?

 

[princessmorgan]

People are complaining about immigrants coming and taking their jobs, but they're doing jobs you don't want to do! Like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUdozfL7iM. Come on guys. I am a moderate so I can see points on both sides of the spectrum and disagree with points on both sides. Let's think of this from a humanitarian point of view. Do we save them or let them die? I can understand trying to block the really bad guys like drug lords and distributors, but regular people trying to do well for their families is ridiculous. I have a family of my own and have thought about moving to Korea to give my kids a better chance at being bilingual or polyglots and get better educations, but to think I would be shunned or denied based on the sheer fact that I come from another country is appalling. No wonder other countries hate Americans. I can see how this generation is being brought up with a sense of entitlement by reading some of your answers. America is not only yours. What if the Native Americans told all of us to gtfo?

 

[Mairen]

I think it's a nice thing he's done. If people have been living in the US for 5 years, chances are they have a pretty stable life set up somewhere. Just knocking on their door, tearing them away from their home and telling them "lolz good luck bai" is kind of harsh. No, I don't agree with people coming and living there illegally, but if they are already in the country and set up and living, why not give them this chance? Lets just try to put a stop to illegal immigration from now on.

Love everyone and give them a chance at a better life ^__^ Everyone should be welcomed if they want to try to do this legally.

 

[lazuli]

my dads been in the US for at LEAST 20 years 'illegally' and he became a US citizen a year or two ago.
kinda off topic, but hed tell us how hed walked a REALLY LONG WAY through mexico and crossed the rio grande on a raft of some sort.

 

[M O L K O]

People are complaining about immigrants coming and taking their jobs, but they're doing jobs you don't want to do! Like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUdozfL7iM. Come on guys. I am a moderate so I can see points on both sides of the spectrum and disagree with points on both sides. Let's think of this from a humanitarian point of view. Do we save them or let them die? I can understand trying to block the really bad guys like drug lords and distributors, but regular people trying to do well for their families is ridiculous. I have a family of my own and have thought about moving to Korea to give my kids a better chance at being bilingual or polyglots and get better educations, but to think I would be shunned or denied based on the sheer fact that I come from another country is appalling. No wonder other countries hate Americans. I can see how this generation is being brought up with a sense of entitlement by reading some of your answers. America is not only yours. What if the Native Americans told all of us to gtfo?

Well, to be fair, they kinda did.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I'm not gonna get involved with the debate some people are having, since I honestly don't give a lick about US politics when keeping in mind how screwed up the entire country is. There's just one thing I keep seeing mentioned that really bothers me.


This is not to you specifically, since you're not the only one saying it.

I see how this could be taken as a fair point, but people in the thread before have said that modern policies were not in place then. Native Americans could have been treated better of course, but guilting the descendants with those happenings is about as logical as calling someone out on their skin color.

That's not even mentioning the fact that a lot of countries we have today would not exist in that form were it not for a certain group of people deciding to go there and take it over from whoever lived there already. Think of countries like Australia, a bunch of southern African nations, Japan, the UK. Yet once it comes to the US everybody's like "but the Native Americans".

If people in the US are gonna be seen as illegal because of their ancestors, then I'm sorry but basically everybody in the entire world could be seen as illegal.

You do understand that they were basically sliced up and fed to rich european countries to do their hard work (Rubber, silver, cotton, etc..) and were colonized for the sake of fueling imperialism right?!?

I mean ..cuz the congos totally didn't fund what u ppl call belgium at all.

and as for the uk and japan I'm unsure how to answer that properly as I don't know my facts. I would like some sources on japan since as far as I know they were never colonized, I think you may be talking about china and even then...

 

[Reindeer]

You do understand that they were basically sliced up and fed to rich european countries to do their hard work (Rubber, silver, cotton, etc..) and were colonized for the sake of fueling imperialism right?!?

I mean ..cuz the congos totally didn't fund what u ppl call belgium at all.

and as for the uk and japan I'm unsure how to answer that properly as I don't know my facts. I would like some sources on japan since as far as I know they were never colonized, I think you may be talking about china and even then...

In South Africa there was apartheid until the 90s, and in Australia the aboriginals were treated like trash until the 80s/90s. This includes many atrocities that you wouldn't wish on any human being. It was their land and it was taken from them, yet the amount of people I see saying "pls go australians" is incredibly tiny compared to the amount of people saying "pls go amerikunz".

As for Japan, think of something more recent. They were largely in isolation until WWII and subsequently invaded by the US. The US imposed a lot of laws on the country which are still in place today. I wasn't speaking strictly about invading a country and living there for the rest of eternity - the countries in the UK weren't invaded since 1066 yet the countries (and languages) were still largely and directly influenced by people like the French royals of the time.

You can't force people to feel bad about the actions of their ancestors, especially when you're talking about something that happened 300-400 years ago. Again, it's like judging people based on their skin color. They didn't choose to be born like that, so what gives you the right to judge them based on it?

 

[M O L K O]

In South Africa there was apartheid until the 90s, and in Australia the aboriginals were treated like trash until the 80s/90s. This includes many atrocities that you wouldn't wish on any human being. It was their land and it was taken from them, yet the amount of people I see saying "pls go australians" is incredibly tiny compared to the amount of people saying "pls go amerikunz".

As for Japan, think of something more recent. They were largely in isolation until WWII and subsequently invaded by the US. The US imposed a lot of laws on the country which are still in place today. I wasn't speaking strictly about invading a country and living there for the rest of eternity - the countries in the UK weren't invaded since 1066 yet the countries (and languages) were still largely and directly influenced by people like the French royals of the time.

You can't force people to feel bad about the actions of their ancestors, especially when you're talking about something that happened 300-400 years ago. Again, it's like judging people based on their skin color. They didn't choose to be born like that, so what gives you the right to judge them based on it?

I agree with this and even the japan part as well, however I think this debate is more about immigration and not the laws other countries have restricted on them (which could go on forever lbr) Nonetheless I see your point on those issues.

I don't know where you live exactly but these actions of ancestors is bs, the descendents still benefit from the crimes their ancestors dealt. This is why **** that happened 300-400 years ago is still very much relevant. When we have native americans being used as mascots, blackface still being used, cops committing brutality and then protestors being treated like animals..its even more evident that these descendants are fully aware of their position and take full advantage of it. We, in america treat immigrants as if they're second class citizens when just 100 years ago, we were the immigrants. Tell me how is that fair?
I can't speak for australia, the countries in africa, and japan (tho if the point is just laws and not immigration I don't believe they're a part of this) However if have immigrants coming in to their country and they act disgraceful I think they should take a reflection into their own countries past as you're right, we are basically all 'illegal here' how the hell can we pin down people to a certain location?

 

[oath2order]

Zoraluv so what you're saying is even 300-400 years later we still need to atone for the crimes of our ancestors?

 

[Reindeer]

I agree with this and even the japan part as well, however I think this debate is more about immigration and not the laws other countries have restricted on them (which could go on forever lbr) Nonetheless I see your point on those issues.

I don't know where you live exactly but these actions of ancestors is bs, the descendents still benefit from the crimes their ancestors dealt. This is why **** that happened 300-400 years ago is still very much relevant. When we have native americans being used as mascots, blackface still being used, cops committing brutality and then protestors being treated like animals..its even more evident that these descendants are fully aware of their position and take full advantage of it. We, in america treat immigrants as if they're second class citizens when just 100 years ago, we were the immigrants. Tell me how is that fair?
I can't speak for australia, the countries in africa, and japan (tho if the point is just laws and not immigration I don't believe they're a part of this) However if have immigrants coming in to their country and they act disgraceful I think they should take a reflection into their own countries past as you're right, we are basically all 'illegal here' how the hell can we pin down people to a certain location?

If you agree that people can't be pinned to one specific geolocation, then I think you'll see how forcing people to carry the burden of their ancestor's actions becomes a bit much. The world we live in was built on these conquests, the examples I gave were just some of the more recent ones. Think of all the great conquerors, the empires that once existed, and think of how that shaped human history. You'll come to see that everybody has guilty ancestors somewhere in their bloodline.

If you want people to atone for their ancestors' crimes, then humankind will become slaves to apology.

 

[Jarrad]

hello race-neutral america

 

[pictureperfectLT]

Wow I missed a lot while I was asleep... Anywho

and why exactly should people be forced to stay in a country they have no desire to be a part of simply because they were born there? why should people be required to follow this obligation, especially when every day they live in fear of being murdered by rebels/terrorists/smugglers/whatever in their own homes. why should people be subjugated to live in fear of living? in most cases, like the case with my parents, people move to different countries to run away from poor living wages and corruption within governments.

you can't expect, nor force, people to stay in a single spot throughout their entire life. the whole idea of multiple civilizations came from the widespread movement of humans across multiple continents. in theory, you can say we were born with the instinct to disperse to different areas. this is no different here. there is no singular "best" solution as you have mentioned. each individual has different needs and wants. instead of projecting your needs and wants onto other people, maybe it'd help in the long run if you supported and offered assistance to people who need that sort of direction in their life.

THIS. I agree with this so much.

wud u let someone move into ur house because they wanted to?

That's the thing, though. They're not moving into your house. They're not bothering you in any way. They're off doing their own thing, working towards a better life. In no way is it affecting you. In no way is it being "forced" upon you.

 

[Jarrad]

Wow I missed a lot while I was asleep... Anywho



THIS. I agree with this so much.



That's the thing, though. They're not moving into your house. They're not bothering you in any way. They're off doing their own thing, working towards a better life. In no way is it affecting you. In no way is it being "forced" upon you.

Even though I'm not American, it has a huge affect on you, depending on your financial status, i,e if you're unemployed and seeking work. Odds are you'll be competing against immigrants that are willing to work more hours for lower pay.

 

[M O L K O]

Zoraluv so what you're saying is even 300-400 years later we still need to atone for the crimes of our ancestors?

No, the point I'm trying to make is that people still benefit from these crimes. The decedents from the ancestors who were victimized are still dealing with anguish yet we feel free to turn a blind eye. We don't need to atone for the crimes but we do need to realize what our ancestors did (and more than what your white painted history text book will let you in on) and work towards a goal of equality.

If you agree that people can't be pinned to one specific geolocation, then I think you'll see how forcing people to carry the burden of their ancestor's actions becomes a bit much. The world we live in was built on these conquests, the examples I gave were just some of the more recent ones. Think of all the great conquerors, the empires that once existed, and think of how that shaped human history. You'll come to see that everybody has guilty ancestors somewhere in their bloodline.

If you want people to atone for their ancestors' crimes, then humankind will become slaves to apology.

At what cost? We have to understand that ancestors have put people through trials that their descendants still feel the effects of. This has really gotten off the subject of immigration. I still think that immigrants should be able to move to america or anywhere else, and vice versa.

 

[pictureperfectLT]

Even though I'm not American, it has a huge affect on you, depending on your financial status, i,e if you're unemployed and seeking work. Odds are you'll be competing against immigrants that are willing to work more hours for lower pay.

Depends what type of work you're going for. Because even those who are unemployed won't go for the jobs that they see themselves "unfit" to work for. I'm going to get a bit personal here, now. My father went back to school and earned his Bachelor's Degree. He's still looking for a job. He's had countless job offers for a draftsman (which is what he was before he went to school), but refuses them all because he says that's what he went to school for in the first place. It's the exact same situation. Those who are unemployed don't even THINK to go for the types of low-wage, hard-labor jobs that immigrants take because they're too "good" for them.

 

[Jarrad]

Depends what type of work you're going for. Because even those who are unemployed won't go for the jobs that they see themselves "unfit" to work for. I'm going to get a bit personal here, now. My father went back to school and earned his Bachelor's Degree. He's still looking for a job. He's had countless job offers for a draftsman (which is what he was before he went to school), but refuses them all because he says that's what he went to school for in the first place. It's the exact same situation. Those who are unemployed don't even THINK to go for the types of low-wage, hard-labor jobs that immigrants take because they're too "good" for them.

Actually, the large majority of the unemployed go for ANY job they can find. At the end of the day, money is money. I'd do a lot of things just to earn some cash, and if that comes at the cost of exposing myself to a hard-labour job or something which others would find humiliating, then so be it. It all really depends on how badly you want a job, it really does.

But yeah, immigration = more people living in America, which means less employment opportunities. Combined with a huge list of other implications relating to over-popularity.

A lot of people here are just looking at the racial/social aspects of immigration. Ya'll need to look at everything. Socio-cultural impacts, economical impacts, environmental etc. Can America really afford to harbour more civilians?

 

[samsquared]

I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.

Well, the whole reason that they're here illegally in the first place is because the immigration process is long and ridiculously hard to get through and some requirements bar certain people from entering the process at all. For others, the already molasses speed process is exacerbated in an attempt to keep them from immigrating for plenty of reasons, some of which are just not very good (Arizona).
Some states (Arizona) have what I would call abhorrent immigration policies (Arizona) that are borderline reactionary a la Alabama and Virginia right after Brown v Board.
America is supposed to be a nation that expands its opportunities for equal participation, representation, and fraternisation as much as possible. That much is necessary for us to be truly free. We can talk about your liberties once I have my rights!

That reminds me of a South Park episode. The future people kept taking everybody's jobs, and the government allows them to live in present-day America.

Also, the point of this episode was to show us that we should try to better Mexico and make life with a family and kids sustainable there without a farm or a drug farm or a meth lab or a sweet maquiladora gig. Maybe they wouldn't have to be poor here and drug pushers there if we tried to assist their economy... but of course, that takes time and effort on our part.