Biancasbotique
Sweet Feather
Just making sure that human balancing doesn't happen (especially in this game) so I can focus on who the scum might be
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Mafia PokéMafia : a small game of mafia - Town Wins
- Thread starter toadsworthy
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Just making sure that human balancing doesn't happen (especially in this game) so I can focus on who the scum might be
Hyrule and Dad are both people that I don't really want to lynch today. Hyrule already feels like solid town, Dad I feel good about though I do have some reservations but at the end of the day I just hands down don't want his lynch in comparison to the other six.
I'm gonna sort the remaining six players (Bianca and Antonio vs Dragon, Jt, rhino, and Zelda) into two different groups based off of experience, not that I'm saying that Toads would human balance but just because I'm applying different standards to the two different groups, and really there's been pretty much nothing so far to differentiate between the first three of the second group (though I actually want to lynch one of them just to hold their feet to the fire, all are essentially zero posters so far)
I think that at the end of the day I marginally prefer Bianca in the first group as town to Antonio. Yeah she's had some weird posts, and I still feel like tracker/watcher could be an excuse to fake content through thread volume, but if she's mafia she has better control over the tone she puts forward in her posts than when I last scummed with her (and did at one point use that she's medicated as an excuse, but if that's true I TR her more for it). Antonio I just don't like, this may be slightly biased by the fact that he's only made one post since people have come forward to make reads rather than discuss PRs, but his questions with regards to PRs have been just weird, two posts fixated on Dad where he pretty much had already answered the questions in the first place. I may be a bit ambitious saying this since he's struggled as town in the last few games but it kinda feels like he's struggling to put forward a thread presence
His "reasoning" for doing this I honestly don't like. Not being able to see does not mean that you have worse reading comprehension. Not having glasses shouldn't actually be a hinderance to commenting on his reasoning for PRs since you don't need glasses to type (tried this blind once, don't reccommend but it's less of a hinderance). This has been his ONLY post with ANY value whatsoever.
Have to agree with Dad, jt and Zelda look the worst out of the noobs and I can't even begin to read them honestly. I guess maybe .01 townpoints for Rhino because he's clearly not in what I like to call noob mindset A just yet (with respect to how noobs play as different roles), and another .05 for being anti-aligned with Jt. Though nothing any of them have done are redeemable. Dragon does not look the best out of the remainder but he looks the least eggregious as he's been more genuinely afk than Zelda and JT. Both of them have been online and posting in other parts of the forum than here.
This is gonna end up reflecting super poorly on me if Zelda does end up being mafia, and is hilariously playing into Dad's me/Zelda tinfoil (yeah, I know that I get no townpoints for being aware of it), but I actually like Zelda's cop/watcher vote since I think that Rhino and Jt both provided enough cover for her to vote for tracker if she's scared of town me's analysis, which I clearly explained was the worst role on the list. Cop/tracker was in the lead at the time, so I think she'd see it as better cover
There really isn't much to go through for JT, been active elsewhere, hasn't made a single post in thread, did ##mafia. Straight up don't like it
I'm gonna sort the remaining six players (Bianca and Antonio vs Dragon, Jt, rhino, and Zelda) into two different groups based off of experience, not that I'm saying that Toads would human balance but just because I'm applying different standards to the two different groups, and really there's been pretty much nothing so far to differentiate between the first three of the second group (though I actually want to lynch one of them just to hold their feet to the fire, all are essentially zero posters so far)
I think that at the end of the day I marginally prefer Bianca in the first group as town to Antonio. Yeah she's had some weird posts, and I still feel like tracker/watcher could be an excuse to fake content through thread volume, but if she's mafia she has better control over the tone she puts forward in her posts than when I last scummed with her (and did at one point use that she's medicated as an excuse, but if that's true I TR her more for it). Antonio I just don't like, this may be slightly biased by the fact that he's only made one post since people have come forward to make reads rather than discuss PRs, but his questions with regards to PRs have been just weird, two posts fixated on Dad where he pretty much had already answered the questions in the first place. I may be a bit ambitious saying this since he's struggled as town in the last few games but it kinda feels like he's struggling to put forward a thread presence
His "reasoning" for doing this I honestly don't like. Not being able to see does not mean that you have worse reading comprehension. Not having glasses shouldn't actually be a hinderance to commenting on his reasoning for PRs since you don't need glasses to type (tried this blind once, don't reccommend but it's less of a hinderance). This has been his ONLY post with ANY value whatsoever.
Have to agree with Dad, jt and Zelda look the worst out of the noobs and I can't even begin to read them honestly. I guess maybe .01 townpoints for Rhino because he's clearly not in what I like to call noob mindset A just yet (with respect to how noobs play as different roles), and another .05 for being anti-aligned with Jt. Though nothing any of them have done are redeemable. Dragon does not look the best out of the remainder but he looks the least eggregious as he's been more genuinely afk than Zelda and JT. Both of them have been online and posting in other parts of the forum than here.
This is gonna end up reflecting super poorly on me if Zelda does end up being mafia, and is hilariously playing into Dad's me/Zelda tinfoil (yeah, I know that I get no townpoints for being aware of it), but I actually like Zelda's cop/watcher vote since I think that Rhino and Jt both provided enough cover for her to vote for tracker if she's scared of town me's analysis, which I clearly explained was the worst role on the list. Cop/tracker was in the lead at the time, so I think she'd see it as better cover
There really isn't much to go through for JT, been active elsewhere, hasn't made a single post in thread, did ##mafia. Straight up don't like it
Hyrule_Crossing
Profile Picture By Me
I still can’t think of anyone to Lynch today, but I’ll keep thinking. Hopefully someone makes a good statement and I can agree, and go with that.
Me and Dad are both voting Zelda rn. What do you think of us both voting for that?
You don't get content unless you create it
Hyrule_Crossing
Profile Picture By Me
I don’t really see Zelda on the thread that much, so I think lynching her will be my vote
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Him/her I don’t know lol
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Him/her I don’t know lol
What sets Zelda apart from the others in your mind (Jt, Dragon, and Rhino)
Hyrule_Crossing
Profile Picture By Me
Well, I don’t know to be honest, I don’t really see them too much on the thread. But like toad said, voting ends tomorrow so I still have time to change my vote if I feel like it. So no pressure on me (hopefully)
Back! I'm at work again so responding post by post!
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I'm around at night and early morning in the US so feel free to bounce thoughts back and forth with me.
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All in all this discussion isn't getting any actual content reads from you so just play this game under the assumption that the randomization is pure and respond to what people are actually saying and doing. Despite you being #3 in postcount you haven't had much in terms of actually responding to in-game content.
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Skipping Dolby and saving post 122 for last since it's going to take a longer post.
I'm going to do it at some point tonight but can I give you a little homework? Can you rank all the players in this list from least suspicious to most suspicious? That way you won't fall into the danger of just following experienced players on what they think and want and in ranking people you force yourself to measure on your own. So for example if I was in a game with Ness and Toadsworthy for example and Ness was least suspicious and Toads was most suspicious I would have it look like:
Dad
Ness
Player
Player
Player
Toadsworthy
I'd prefer to see a new player I trust do this before Dolby and I do so it's an uninfluenced ranking.
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Just irl stuff or...?
Either way @Toadsworthy I think Punchy was offering to replace.
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I'm around at night and early morning in the US so feel free to bounce thoughts back and forth with me.
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All in all this discussion isn't getting any actual content reads from you so just play this game under the assumption that the randomization is pure and respond to what people are actually saying and doing. Despite you being #3 in postcount you haven't had much in terms of actually responding to in-game content.
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Skipping Dolby and saving post 122 for last since it's going to take a longer post.
I'm going to do it at some point tonight but can I give you a little homework? Can you rank all the players in this list from least suspicious to most suspicious? That way you won't fall into the danger of just following experienced players on what they think and want and in ranking people you force yourself to measure on your own. So for example if I was in a game with Ness and Toadsworthy for example and Ness was least suspicious and Toads was most suspicious I would have it look like:
Dad
Ness
Player
Player
Player
Toadsworthy
I'd prefer to see a new player I trust do this before Dolby and I do so it's an uninfluenced ranking.
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Just irl stuff or...?
Either way @Toadsworthy I think Punchy was offering to replace.
Biancasbotique
Sweet Feather
The only reads I can do are between you and Dolby and as I said your interactions are both tamer than usual.
Hyrule seems to be just copying what Dolby thinks.
The others are either just asking about the rules of mafia or showing up one time and leaving.
Antonio seems like he hasn't played mafia before, and is now replacing
So in terms of my choice for lynch, any of the inactives will do. I have only seen one post from dragonboy and it is to tell everyone he is from England. rhino has disappeared it seems, and zelda seems to ignore the threads.
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and of course i barely hear from jtheburger...
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And as for my impression of both Dad and Dolby...Dolby is kinda hard to tell if he is town or scum as I know he is a good bluesnipe so his suggestion of cop/watcher might be strategic on his move as mafia. As for Dad, he is not as debatable to Dolby and from my experience, very intense Dolby-Dad interaction always turn out to be town vs town move. so I am just taking this tameness as being teamed together. But if Dad and Dolby are team, that is really bad for town (two strong players) vs. a sea of newbies...hmm..
And as for my take on human balancing, I think this is one of the instances where human balancing might be required as you can see there are really only two players (you and Dad) who I know will take this game and analyze it well. I don't know if you understand me or am I ranting?
Hyrule seems to be just copying what Dolby thinks.
The others are either just asking about the rules of mafia or showing up one time and leaving.
Antonio seems like he hasn't played mafia before, and is now replacing
So in terms of my choice for lynch, any of the inactives will do. I have only seen one post from dragonboy and it is to tell everyone he is from England. rhino has disappeared it seems, and zelda seems to ignore the threads.
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and of course i barely hear from jtheburger...
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And as for my impression of both Dad and Dolby...Dolby is kinda hard to tell if he is town or scum as I know he is a good bluesnipe so his suggestion of cop/watcher might be strategic on his move as mafia. As for Dad, he is not as debatable to Dolby and from my experience, very intense Dolby-Dad interaction always turn out to be town vs town move. so I am just taking this tameness as being teamed together. But if Dad and Dolby are team, that is really bad for town (two strong players) vs. a sea of newbies...hmm..
And as for my take on human balancing, I think this is one of the instances where human balancing might be required as you can see there are really only two players (you and Dad) who I know will take this game and analyze it well. I don't know if you understand me or am I ranting?
Antonio has played at least somewhere around 5-10 games here making him the 4th most experienced player on this list.
I am looking at the profiles and activity of Zelda, Rhino, and JT and all have been on the forum today. Zelda has lurked this thread and has no activity elsewhere, whereas Rhino and JT are both posting random stuff elsewhere on the forum yet not here yet. At least with Rhino he was the same way during the last game so it's not a scumtells for him but doesn't give him town points. If JT is mafia he is not mafia with Dolby or Bianca tbh, I don't think either would be okay with him posting elsewhere but not here and wouldn't neglect to remind him that this isn't a super casual game like everything else in basement.
Out of these three Zelda demonstrates the most self monitoring and caution which for a new player looks bad in conjunction with lurking and the tone of a single post responding to me calling them out in which they more or less sheep something agreeable.
Dragon boys activity I'll look at in a few. Dolby up next, gonna need a few.
Alright.
Also checked dragonboy's activity and he was last on when he last posted, and seems to have been fully inactive during his birthday, but made one post in a basement game before his most recent post here. It's not as strong as it is with JT and Rhino but this also gives me a 'treats it casually' vibe.
Also checked dragonboy's activity and he was last on when he last posted, and seems to have been fully inactive during his birthday, but made one post in a basement game before his most recent post here. It's not as strong as it is with JT and Rhino but this also gives me a 'treats it casually' vibe.
Numbers are paragraphs of this post. Responding to each paragraph.
1) I made the Hyrule townread first and after I pointed out why she was town telling that is something you have repeatedly piggybacked. It's agreeable so it doesn't count as much of a unique read from you.
2) Sorting people by experience feels arbitrary coming from you and makes me worry you are doing it to come off as having a solvey approach. Also you say there's nothing to differentiate between the first three of the second group, which would be JT, rhino, and dragon but you 'want to lunch one of them to hold their feet to the fire'. A) You're voting Zelda to pressure her but she is not in of the first three in your second grouping but the fourth. B) Lynching doesn't pressure, voting and forming a wagon does, so I think you meant to use the word vote rather than Lynch. C) My last post before I went to bed when I voted her was at face value a pressure vote and this feels like it's you following along with pressuring because pushing for there to be more content in the game looks towny. And D) I consider this another instance of piggybacking. Oh and not all in that second grouping are legit zero posters in this thread outside of JT.
3) I think your Bianca read is semi unique and if I'd posted my thoughts on her faster you'd be saying yet another thing I already have in that Bianca is towny but me asking about her progression was foreshadowing that I had a townread here. And yes the things you mention in this paragraph are indeed more indicative of town Bianca than scum Bianca. Really you differentiating Bianca and Antonio was something you were looking at to begin with because you brought them up as a pairing potential and it's based on how they're experienced to know better. The approach changes here though. If I'm reading it correctly you posit that Antonio is struggling in a way he usually doesn't as town but what makes this game different is 'thread presence' which in my memory of Antonio in Ships to Port was a struggle he had there.
4) The glasses thing feels pretty low hanging fruity which is why I grilled him about the inconsistency: I wanted to see who would jump on a moment that looks objectively bad because I wanted to see who is aiming to lynch him over a micro read. You seem to put a lot of emphasis in the last sentence of this paragraph, as a small tonal note. Using the word ambitious is also a tonal note.
5) You can't even begin to read them? Expand on the point about Rhino not being in the newb mindset? The anti-align with JT I already pointed out. Also .01 and .05 as arbitrary partial town points is yet another moment from you that feels tonally off. And I've already stated that I think dragons afk seems genuine so that's not a until read and piggybacking although I can't hold this piggybacking against you since there isn't much either when it comes to dragon.
6) I feel like you're lampshading your partnership with Zelda by saying you're hilariously playing into my tinfoil. If you voted for Zelda to pressure her why are you already providing a townread for her just because there was an opportunity for cover in voting trackercop with JT and rhino? Seems anti-pressure coming from someone of your experience level. And following the most active and objectivey thoughtful person on copwatcher is as good a cover as sheeping those two if not better. You use the word hilariously in regards to my tinfoil because that makes it look like it's just that: silly tinfoil. I legitimately think you are paired at this point. Tempvoting Zelda to come off as providing towny pressure already indicates that's all there is and if Zelda can't muster the courage to start posting? You'd bus and solo the game, especially if you got to be the mafia pr.
7) Kudos to pointing out that he is active elsewhere before I got to it but that isn't necessarily a scumtell. Expand on why you straight up don't like this and the ##mafia moment I guess.
That took way too long.
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Repeat of the term 'holding feet to the fire'.
You're experienced to know that pressure isn't as effective when it's being made obvious it's just pressure for the sake of pressure.
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Experienced enough*
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I should probably provide a tldr here: ...read, people. Essentially I am pointing out that Dolby is doing a lot of echoing of my reads, forming arbitrary approaches like grouping people on experience and giving Rhino partial town points for things in what feels like an agendad and conveniently flexible PoE (process of elimination), putting forth good looking progression on Bianca while steering towards what I think are disagreeable conclusions about Antonio, following me on a Zelda vote because the pressure makes Dolby look towny even though pressure shouldn't be obvious that it's only pressure, and a number of worrying tonal moments. That's what leads to a significant scumlean here.
Also if Bianca is noticing that Dolby is uncharacteristically tame in his interaction with me, I only feel worse that what he is really attempting is a pocket, and a lot of the things I find towny he seems like he's piggybacking me and it's easy stuff to read as genuinely trying to help provide more content from town and also genuinely reacts to the threadstate he has repeatedly called demoralizing (and it is).
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Nooo come back Dolby I'm all alone in here.
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Nooo come back Dolby I'm all alone in here.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that I TRed Hyrule before you in #84. You do get some credit for being the first to mention the towntell, but I think that it's a towntell because they weren't even aware of the fact tat godfather was a mafia role and not a town one. Not for drawing attention to the voting deadline, which was inconsequential
Dad, my mentality at this point is that with the rest of the players being how they are right now, I feel that town's already lost if your scum not because you can strongarm them, but they simply don't care enough to stand in your way or even vote. Zelda herself is a prime example of this, they have the only votes on them and they haven't bothered to come in the thread yet despite being clearly online. I want at least one of them to post SOMETHING, and if there isn't an alternate wagon that just makes the job easier, honestly I don't even expect most of them to read to this point in my post. Let's be real though a) Tbh there is really nothing to differentiate Zelda from the rest now that I think about it because she only posted because you called her out C) If I wanted to look towny as scum I'm not going to passively follow you on the lynch because it was quite clearly a pressure vote. I'm just following it for the same reasons that you've kept the pressure on Zelda throughout the game despite being no different from the others as paradoxical as it sounds D) Has anything that rhino or dragon said actually had an impact on the game? Would the game be any different if either of them hadn't posted at all. To be honest, no, there's nothing
This is outdated now that Antonio replaced out because this section is far more focused on why I came to sus Antonio over Bianca. Antonio's had at least been able to post reads in the past few games, here it felt like his questions towards you were a vessel for the sole purpose of not appearing like a zero poster, considering that the questions had no value to them and had the answers there already. In the past as town he didn't stoop that low as to ask illegitimate questions to look good
I can't read a ****ing zero poster, all four fit that catagory.
Rhino isn't clearly excited because he's scum, that's what I meant by that. I typically divide newbs into 3 mindsets, and A's what I can be called "excited scum" I guess. Rhino clearly doesnt fall into that catagory if he's scum
I'm not townreading her for it, I'm disputing it as a reason for her to be considered any different from the other three. I'm about to fall asleep at my keyboard at this point, but at this point it's uncaring townie vs frozen fear scum for her(Zelda).
Also, I use hilariously to describe the situation, not the tinfoil. In no way do I insinuate that the tinfoil itself is hilarious, but how my view plays into the tinfoil (also, do you seriously think I'd make it this obvious, say that Zelda's not my top suspect then vote her 3 hours later as a "tempvote", I think even they'd understand that means nothing, simply bc they're wary of anything that moves to much)
Soloing is just a bad idea in general and I don't understand why you did it with Korean to Antonio so early in Day Two, he wasn't a lost cause yet. Especially since you'd get credit for the lynch, watcher would be on you, and I'd have to deal with you being here tomorrow
****ing glad you asked. Guy apparently joins for the apparent sole purpose of playing mafia on here on the guidance from his friend, hasn't even made a post in the thread yet, just staying in the basement games and seems to forget that he's even in this one. I'm not even sure why he'd put ##mafia in the voting thread as either alignment tbh, and I'm not gonna get into it because I don't remember what I was thinking then. What I really don't like is the method in which he follows Rhino in the vote thread. I view THAT as a heavy cover attempt for not following my cop/watcher. If he's scum I can pretty much write the exact words of what's going through his mind right now "If they sus it, they'll go after him first, and they won't sus me anyway because a town did it" (still agree with the rhino/Jt anti-align)
Also liking Bianca more as of recently, the tone just feels so pure. This isn't a particularly insightful post but it took a lot out of me after the day I've had
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Also if Bianca is noticing that Dolby is uncharacteristically tame in his interaction with me, I only feel worse that what he is really attempting is a pocket, and a lot of the things I find towny he seems like he's piggybacking me and it's easy stuff to read as genuinely trying to help provide more content from town and also genuinely reacts to the threadstate he has repeatedly called demoralizing (and it is).
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Nooo come back Dolby I'm all alone in here.
First part, I know I change my meta like my clothes each day, but I'm the believer in the situation where when I'm clearly one of the two strongest players (which I consider at my level) and I'm scum the best play for me is to attack them head on (won me Smash against Endless, powermaf for life man), especially when I think that they're gonna sus me before the day is out (you def fall into that camp, even when I'm town)
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Also, to the soloing point, I know that I brag about soloing 12v1 so much in kingmaker even though it was 4 years ago, but you literally have to walk the narrowest ****ing line
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Also Dad if you make another wall post tonight I'm not responding to it tonight
Oh and since it's bound to come up, the reason I find your stance on Antonio disagreeable is because I think it's not entirely AI that he's struggling because he doesn't have his glasses but at the surface, heck, even looking at it in depth, it looks bad in a vacuum. Only worse now that he's subbing out but at the time but I do have to consider that it wasn't a scumread of me and I never read it as being such to begin with because you were presenting what he asked as 'pressuring' me which in and of itself is going beyond the pr discussion if that's how you read it back then. And like I said I feel like it's pushy to argue that Antonio is only just now struggling to have a thread presence when that was something I remember from his play in Call Ships to Port.
Still read it the same way even after replacement honestly, he was trying to put himself out in the thread but didn't have anything to say, so resorted to questioning you, which is bad even for an only semi-experienced player
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As a side note, Antonio did end up coming with 3 people that he sussed with some valid reasoning N1 that game
I'm going to respond with a wall, especially since work is slowing down and I have the time and a lot to respond to, but since I have you here: who are your top two scumreads Dolby?
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Antonio and JT?
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Antonio and JT?
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