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Politics General Discussion Thread - "USA Presidential Election 2016" Editon

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Okay, I'm sorry, but there is no way in the world Donald Trump is accepting of the LGBT+ community. If anything, he has lied about it (just like Hilary) to gain more support. That's one thing I've gotta put to bed right now.

In an interview with in January, Trump said he would “strongly consider” appointing judges to overturn the Marriage Equality Act. During an interview with Bill O’Reilly in 2011, he said "I just don’t feel good about it". He went on to say “I don’t feel right about it. I’m against it, and I take a lot of heat because I come from New York. You know, for New York it’s like, how can you be against gay marriage? But I’m opposed to gay marriage".

On a much larger scale, his opinions change as often as his clothes, and his views on transgendered people is a little more complex. He initially supported Obama in working toward allowing transgender students to use restrooms that match their gender identity, but later changed his stance by supporting a North Carolina law that restricted restroom access for transgender people. Trump said in June he’s “going with the state", which is ridiculous because, as I said earlier, why the heck would you force people to have to move state so they can use marry who they want, have abortions, and use the bathroom (of all things in the world)?

He also pledged to sign the First Amendment Defence Act, which protects discrimination on religious grounds and prohibits the government from taking action against anyone who “believes or acts in accordance with a religious belief or moral conviction that marriage is or should be recognised as the union of one man and one woman".

So, no. He has a history of being a complete jerk when it comes to the LGBT+ community. I'm gay, and I did all my research on this dude when I first heard about him. 99% of his supporters are all straight white boys who have never had to deal with minority discrimination before, and lucky for them!
 
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Okay, I'm sorry, but there is no way in the world Donald Trump is accepting of the LGBT+ community. If anything, he has lied about it (just like Hilary) to gain more support. That's one thing I've gotta put to bed right now.

In an interview with in January, Trump said he would “strongly consider” appointing judges to overturn the Marriage Equality Act. During an interview with Bill O’Reilly in 2011, he said "I just don’t feel good about it". He went on to say “I don’t feel right about it. I’m against it, and I take a lot of heat because I come from New York. You know, for New York it’s like, how can you be against gay marriage? But I’m opposed to gay marriage".

On a much larger scale, his opinions change as often as his clothes, and his views on transgendered people is a little more complex. He initially supported Obama in working toward allowing transgender students to use restrooms that match their gender identity, but later changed his stance by supporting a North Carolina law that restricted restroom access for transgender people. Trump said in June he’s “going with the state", which is ridiculous because, as I said earlier, why the heck would you force people to have to move state so they can use marry who they want, have abortions, and use the bathroom (of all things in the world)?

He also pledged to sign the First Amendment Defence Act, which protects discrimination on religious grounds and prohibits the government from taking action against anyone who “believes or acts in accordance with a religious belief or moral conviction that marriage is or should be recognised as the union of one man and one woman".

So, no. He has a history of being a complete jerk when it comes to the LGBT+ community. I'm gay, and I did all my research on this dude when I first heard about him. 99% of his supporters are all straight white boys who have never had to deal with minority discrimination before, and lucky for them!

Lets get some sources pal. He says he supports it, the republicans are aware and unsure of it, and the man waved the LGBT+ flag today before meeting Barrack Obama. Also, he disagrees with the process used to put it in power, not LGBT itself. Quit moving goalposts.
 
Lets get some sources pal. He says he supports it, the republicans are aware and unsure of it, and the man waved the LGBT+ flag today before meeting Barrack Obama. Also, he disagrees with the process used to put it in power, not LGBT itself. Quit moving goalposts.

Oh, I bet he did. Gotta pull out all the stops to get people to stop protesting against him, you know.

Source 1.

Source 2 (which has many other sources linked as well).

Let me know if you need anything else confirmed.
 
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I think we are in the void of "You guys made the wrong choice," and proceeding to either defend him or go against him. People don't have the choice but to accept that he won the presidency. I am certainly not happy, and I don't accept his plans either. Even if some Republicans don't like him, a majority of Republicans will use his presidency as an advantage to push their bills to him.

Also, I read somewhere from this thread, taking a few steps back is okay. No, it isn't... You are just admitting that he isn't good.
 
@Bowie

Please read my post and my previous posts on this matter.

One of the more pro LGBT Republicans.

Do I need to break that down for you? I explicitly state before, in a previous post, that I DID NOT say he was fully PRO-LGBT. I'm saying that out of the Republican Party candidates, he is one of the more accepting of the LGBT groups. If you believe that is false, please find me 2 other Republican candidates that were more pro-LGBT than Trump during their campaign. Romney? McCain? Bush?
 
@Bowie

Please read my post and my previous posts on this matter.

One of the more pro LGBT Republicans.

Do I need to break that down for you? I explicitly state before, in a previous post, that I DID NOT say he was fully PRO-LGBT. I'm saying that out of the Republican Party candidates, he is one of the more accepting of the LGBT groups. If you believe that is false, please find me 2 other Republican candidates that were more pro-LGBT than Trump during their campaign. Romney? McCain? Bush?

I actually wasn't referencing your post. Didn't quote you. I agree entirely that he's been acting no better than anybody else in relation to the LGBT+ community, but he's certainly no better.
 
Oh, I bet he did. Gotta put it out all the stocks to get people to stop protesting against him, you know.

Source 1.

Source 2 (which has many other sources linked as well).

Let me know if you need anything else confirmed.

Both sources are literally what i just said. He believes it should be state rights, not federal. We are literally arguing the same point. He wants the bill to be overruled and for states themselves to decide if it is legal or not. This is why we have local elections every 1-2 years. While he is personally against the marriage, he believes it is up to the people to decide rather than the old establishment republicans and democrats.

You are implying that because he disagrees with how it was done that he is against the whole thing. That is a logical fallacy my friend.
 
Both sources are literally what i just said. He believes it should be state rights, not federal. We are literally arguing the same point. He wants the bill to be overruled and for states themselves to decide if it is legal or not. This is why we have local elections every 1-2 years. While he is personally against the marriage, he believes it is up to the people to decide rather than the old establishment republicans and democrats.

You are implying that because he disagrees with how it was done that he is against the whole thing. That is a logical fallacy my friend.

The man admits he opposes gay marriage. For a start, same-sex marriage should not be something that gets decided by individual states, because this would cause unnecessary chaos among people living there and just surrogate people further. Secondly, how in the world can a man who admits to opposing gay marriage be considered a supporter of our community?
 
I think we are in the void of "You guys made the wrong choice," and proceeding to either defend him or go against him. People don't have the choice but to accept that he won the presidency. I am certainly not happy, and I don't accept his plans either. Even if some Republicans don't like him, a majority of Republicans will use his presidency as an advantage to push their bills to him.

Also, I read somewhere from this thread, taking a few steps back is okay. No, it isn't... You are just admitting that he isn't good.

You are not accepting the voices of half the people in the country.

We have had progressive change the past 8 years. Change that has been pretty beneficial to some of us, but not so much to others. There are people who have felt lost and forgotten during all this rapid change. In the minds of some, saying gay marriage should be law is like saying Christmas is going to be moved to July 25th (bad analogy, but you get the idea).

It's hard to accept for them. To be blunt, you guys are sort of selfish. (Don't take this personally, please.) You have people who have believed that marriage is between a man and a woman, people who know the 2nd Amendment to be true for all, etc. Let them have their say for 4 years. It's not all about you. It's not all about the people born in 90's, who are light years more progressive than the rest. Were there mass riots when Obama was elected in '08 and '12? No. Treat others how you would like to be treated.

I apologise that it sounds mean, so to say it again: don't take it personally. I know he has a lot of policies that are controversial, some that I disagree with too. But the people voted for him fair and square. Give the man a chance. Even if it goes a little backwards on the progressive agenda, it's not about you or me but about the country. And half of the country want to pause, so let it be.

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I actually wasn't referencing your post. Didn't quote you. I agree entirely that he's been acting no better than anybody else in relation to the LGBT+ community, but he's certainly no better.


No better and no better :x I'm assuming it's a typo but thanks
You said it right after so wasn't sure
 
The man admits he opposes gay marriage. For a start, same-sex marriage should not be something that gets decided by individual states, because this would cause unnecessary chaos among people living there and just surrogate people further. Secondly, how in the world can a man who admits to opposing gay marriage be considered a supporter of our community?

because what a personal opinion is and what the country as whole want are two entirely different things. Thats the beauty of business. He knows his personal view needs to be set aside for what the good of the country is
 
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because what a personal opinion is and what the country as whole want are two entirely different things.

Am I missing the point here? This is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife.

But, because his personal opinion is going to have nothing at all to do with how he uses his power as president (according to you), that's totally fine? Well, if there's no issues there, I guess I'll be off on a rocket.
 
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Am I missing the point here? This is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife.

But, because his personal opinion is going to have nothing at all to do with how he uses his power as president (according to you), that's totally fine? Well, if there's no issues there, I guess I'll be off on a rocket.

he thinks muslim immigration from the region should be abolished until the situation resolves. learn his view before you argue.
Also, he believes transgender rights to some degree, as he has declared he thinks transgender people should use whatever bathroom they want.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...der-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/
He has called men mean crap too. Insulting people is an equal right in his eyes.
But in all seriousness, the rapist claims have all been dropped by accusers themselves.

The real GOP enemy of LGBT rights is mike pence. it is a difference they have. Pence is very establishment republican, so if worse comes to worse, and pence ends up with a promotion, LGBT communities will have it far worse.
 
he thinks muslim immigration from the region should be abolished until the situation resolves. learn his view before you argue.
Also, he believes transgender rights to some degree, as he has declared he thinks transgender people should use whatever bathroom they want.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...der-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/
He has called men mean crap too. Insulting people is an equal right in his eyes.
But in all seriousness, the rapist claims have all been dropped by accusers themselves.

The real GOP enemy of LGBT rights is mike pence. it is a difference they have. Pence is very establishment republican, so if worse comes to worse, and pence ends up with a promotion, LGBT communities will have it far worse.

I know his views very well. If I didn't, I wouldn't have even bothered challenging what you're saying.

I am fully aware of what he said about Muslim immigration. One of the many things Trump intends to do when he becomes president is reverse 90% of everything Obama has achieved in his many years of presidency, which includes his immigration policies that work to permit children brought to the country illegally. 29% of these 742,000+ children live in California, and all it would take is the swipe of a pen from Trump to make them illegal, allowing him to deport them along with anybody else he considers illegal immigrants.

"Some degree" is not good enough, and neither is his garbage "state decisions". Before he started running for president he should have had ideas as to what he thought he could do about all of these issues, not just shout "it's gonna be great" and deport children Obama has spent years of his presidency protecting.

Insulting people is not a bloody equal right. Does anyone really want a president that encourages violence and verbal abuse? Because throughout the early days of his campaign this is all he seemed to do, and it's the primary reason he became so mainstream. Is that what represents America?

Also, the only reason the recent rape allegation (about her being raped by him when she was 13) was dropped by her lawyer was because she was afraid of receiving death threats from his supporters, which is understandable if she was raped as a child. Raped by the new president as a child, I should add.

Mike Pence and Donald Trump have a very good relationship with each other and chances are more than likely that he will be influencing Trump's decisions, depending on how much power Trump actually intends to give him. With Trump comes all of his little friends, and they're gonna all rain hard on everything we've been working for, for so many years.
 
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I know his views very well. If I didn't, I wouldn't have even bothered challenging what you're saying.

I am fully aware of what he said about Muslim immigration. One of the many things Trump intends to do when he becomes president is reverse 90% of everything Obama has achieved in his many years of presidency, which includes his immigration policies that work to permit children brought to the country illegally. 29% of these 742,000+ children live in California, and all it would take is the swipe of a pen from Trump to make them illegal, allowing him to deport them along with anybody else he considers illegal immigrants.

"Some degree" is not good enough, and neither is his garbage "state decisions". Before he started running for president he should have had ideas as to what he thought he could do about all of these issues, not just shout "it's gonna be great" and deport children Obama has spent years of his presidency protecting.

Insulting people is not a bloody equal right. Does anyone really want a president that encourages violence and verbal abuse? Because throughout the early days of his campaign this is all he seemed to do, and it's the primary reason he became so mainstream. Is that what represents America?

Also, the only reason the recent rape allegation (about her being raped by him when she was 13) was dropped by her lawyer was because she was afraid of receiving death threats from his supporters, which is understandable if she was raped as a child. Raped by the new president as a child, I should add.

Mike Pence and Donald Trump have a very good relationship with each other and chances are more than likely that he will be influencing Trump's decisions, depending on how much power Trump actually intends to give him. With Trump comes all of his little friends, and they're gonna all rain hard on everything we've been working for, for so many years.

what i was saying is that he insults men and women in the same way. like a savage.
 
To the person that said Trump was not one of the more accepting LGBT Republicans

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

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And guess what! It's from a outlet that denounced Trump a while back!

His vice president is Mike-****ing-Pence. The man who will be whispering in Trump's ear for the next four years is a rampaging homophobe.

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Were there mass riots when Obama was elected in '08 and '12? No. Treat others how you would like to be treated.

So what you're saying is that the left should shut down the government because the budget we want to pass won't pass, block Trump from being able to have hearings on his Supreme Court nominees, and try and block every single bit of legislation he tries to pass.

Cause that's what the GOP has done for the past eight years.
 
To the person that said Trump was not one of the more accepting LGBT Republicans

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

- - - Post Merge - - -

And guess what! It's from a outlet that denounced Trump a while back!

There's a problem with Trump (like a lot of problems, so gosh damn many) but the main problem with him for me is probably the fact that he says one thing and then says another thing and he does one thing and then goes ahead and does another. My point is he often contradicts almost everything he says about the LGBT.

He is only saying these things to manipulate people into believing he is "okay" with the LGBT+ communities, when in reality he isn't at all.

Clinton on the other hand has changed and accepts these people for who they are, she now realises its 2016 and her people should all be equal no matter what (I'm not excusing her but I like how she is now than she was then, she could be doing the same as Trump for all I know, but I doubt it), so hopefully Trump will do the same.
 
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I know how we're (Bell Tree Forums) all excited or angered by the Trump win, but I'll tell you what bothers me about the results. It's all of the protests that erupted in large cities. I have to be grateful that I live in a small town since we don't see these protestors, but if you're living in a major city like New York and Los Angeles, I wish you guys stay safe. The protests have turned into riots, and a vast majority of them are teenagers and young adults. Some of these people are too young to vote. And who's getting assaulted? The middle-aged and elderly. Believe me, this was worse than Ferguson, and maybe even worse than a handful of pre-Civil War events like Bleeding Kansas. Of course, nothing in America could get as bad as the Civil War (even the 9/11 attack), but these protests, is thousands of times worse than how you guys are handling it. I'm glad that you aren't taking it this far like these people.

Also, it's not the Trump win I'm excited about. I'm excited that all three groups (House, Senate, and Presidency) are Republican controlled. Even the Supreme Court may go that way. That's what I like.
 
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