Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity Support Thread

[-Lumi-]

thank you so much!! this means a lot. i think i will just take some more time thinking about coming out to myself. i know the argument “how can u know if you’ve never dated x” is ridiculous, although i wish i could’ve tried things out w a girl to know how it feels but i’m super happy with my boyfriend so i don’t see that happening anytime soon.. but i am pretty sure i do like girls too, i don’t think i would really have to try something with a girl to know i like them. but that’s my parents logic. i feel like if i were to tell them while i’m with my boyfriend they’d be like, “how can you say you like girls if you have your boyfriend?” and they’ll probably guilt trip me or something. i really wish they’d be supportive :/ they literally told me “if you had tried things out with a girl and you liked it we would be more understanding” which is also why i brought up i haven’t dated a girl or anything. they thought i was just resorting to girls because guys weren’t talking to me at that time but that isn’t the case at all and i wish they didn’t think like that

Oh my goodness no problem at all! It can be so tricky trying to figure things out totally on your own. I'm glad that we have this thread here on The Bell Tree to help talk about things like this. It took me a long time to come out to myself (I knew I was a lesbian around 15-16 but I didn't admit it properly for a while lol, and then it took even longer to come out to others!) but that's okay. Everybody moves at their own pace and coming out to yourself is a really important step.

Ugh, you'll always have people like that and it makes me roll my eyes. Before I started dating my girlfriend it was, "how do you know for sure you're gay if you've never been with a girl?" and now I'm getting the reverse of, "okay, but how do you know you're 100% gay if you've never been with a guy?" Like. Idk Sally how do you know you're straight? You've never been with a girl before. I just know, lmao. I have no desire to be with a man, I only want to date women. That's all there is to it for me. I don't personally need to test the waters to confirm that, although I completely understand the people that feel that way. Especially when they're basically pushed to thinking that with all the, "bUt HoW dO yOu KnOw" questions from other people

It's a really gross way of thinking to insist that somebody doesn't know their own sexuality until they've proven it by somebody else's standards. Nobody's going around saying straight people who haven't dated before aren't actually straight so I don't know why that's an okay thing to say about gay people and bisexual people. I'm really sorry that your parents said that to you and I really wish they didn't think that way, either. I really hope that when you're able to come out that they're more understanding and supportive

 

[xSuperMario64x]

been struggling really badly with my identity the last few days. I keep asking myself "well if you don't identify as a male then why wouldn't you identify as female? if it's because of social expectations you have to remember that's not what defines being female, you as a biological female can be/do anything outside the social construct." but there's something about that logic that's flawed, and there's something in me that says "I'm really ****ing tired of identifying as female so I'm nb" but I don't know what that thing is so it makes it really difficult to explain to people why I don't identify as either gender, or specifically why I don't identify and female anymore even though biologically I am one???

like what is it about the prospect of femininity that pushes me away? I feel like it's the social expectations like being a mother, acting lady-like, wearing certain clothes, behaving a certain way. but technically doing none of those things doesn't makes you less of a female. so I can't pinpoint what it is that makes me more comfortable being nb and it is really irking me. I would like to be able to explain myself to my less-accepting conservative family members and friends.
(I think maybe I just resonate more closely with the idea of having a more masculine identity, though not explicitly male, idk)

I think this is just a case of me having really low self esteem and needing constant outside reassurance to feel validated. I just want to tell the whole world "hey I'm non-binary and this is my new name!" but that's so so difficult to do, especially this late in the school year and in my life (I'm almost 22, I've already established who I am to others, and I'm literally about to graduate in a month or so).


maybe someone here can give me some advice?

 

[-Lumi-]

been struggling really badly with my identity the last few days. I keep asking myself "well if you don't identify as a male then why wouldn't you identify as female? if it's because of social expectations you have to remember that's not what defines being female, you as a biological female can be/do anything outside the social construct." but there's something about that logic that's flawed, and there's something in me that says "I'm really ****ing tired of identifying as female so I'm nb" but I don't know what that thing is so it makes it really difficult to explain to people why I don't identify as either gender, or specifically why I don't identify and female anymore even though biologically I am one???

like what is it about the prospect of femininity that pushes me away? I feel like it's the social expectations like being a mother, acting lady-like, wearing certain clothes, behaving a certain way. but technically doing none of those things doesn't makes you less of a female. so I can't pinpoint what it is that makes me more comfortable being nb and it is really irking me. I would like to be able to explain myself to my less-accepting conservative family members and friends.
(I think maybe I just resonate more closely with the idea of having a more masculine identity, though not explicitly male, idk)

I think this is just a case of me having really low self esteem and needing constant outside reassurance to feel validated. I just want to tell the whole world "hey I'm non-binary and this is my new name!" but that's so so difficult to do, especially this late in the school year and in my life (I'm almost 22, I've already established who I am to others, and I'm literally about to graduate in a month or so).


maybe someone here can give me some advice?

I just want to start of with the disclaimer that I am cis woman and have always identified and been comfortable with being cis. I'm nowhere near the best person to reply to this but I have read a few of your posts lately where you've been struggling with this and it breaks my heart. I just want to reach out and let you know that even if I don't have the answers, I still hear you, yunno? You're not just shouting into the void or anything.

I feel like being nonbinary is one of those things that is just innate. Like how being gay, bisexual, straight, or asexual is. It's one of those things that's hard to describe because you just are. You're not any more or less valid for how you present yourself, or how long it took you to come to terms with your identity, or anything like that. Being almost 22 does not in any way, shape, or form make your coming out journey any less than somebody who's known since they were 16 or 12, or 5 years old. Everybody's journey is different.

Yes, you've established yourself to others but the thing about life is as you live it you also grow and change. 12 year old me would've told you I was straight. 15 year old me would've insisted I was at least bisexual. Now here I am nearly 23 and I'm (mostly, I have my days though) comfortable with accepting that I am a lesbian. In the grand scheme of things you're still really young. Plenty of people don't figure out their sexuality or gender identity until they're older because our families, friends, home towns, schools, etc. can all play a really big role in how easy it is for us to learn these things about ourselves.

I hear you though, in that the fact coming out at 22 does feel a lot harder than coming out at 15 or 16. I feel like both stages in life come with challenges. Coming out at 16 you get a lot of, "but you're so young, how can you know for sure?" and then if you wait it's the opposite of, "you're so old surely if this were true you would've said something sooner?". You can't please everybody, the best you can do is try and live a life that's comfortable for you. I think I've read somewhere else that you're staying with your uncle for the summer and he's part of the LGBT+ community and is positive about it? Could staying with him be an opportunity to try out a new name? You'd be in a new place and you might not feel the pressure of, "everybody here already knows me as old name," but moving somewhere new you get to introduce yourself as your new name. Hopefully that makes sense!

As a cis woman I can't really speak on being comfortable with masculinity over femininity but I don't think that plays a huge role in your gender. I think that being nonbinary is just your innate sense of self. You either are or you aren't. I'm a cis woman because hearing she/her pronouns, being referred to as a woman, and being seen as a woman is what makes me comfortable. The fact that I also happen to enjoy wearing skirts/dresses, enjoy painting my nails, doing my makeup, etc. aren't what make me a woman in the same vein that me not wanting to be a mother makes me less of a woman.

There are also plenty of nonbinary people who exist beyond just being androgynous, too! There are nonbinary people who may present more closely with their AGAB or those who may reject their AGAB altogether and one isn't more nonbinary than the other. This is a similar thing we see in lesbian spaces, imo. Not the same, obviously! But feminine lesbians will sometimes get a bad rep for well... being feminine. Because that makes us look more like straight women so in some peoples eyes that means we are straight women. But that's ridiculous. How I dress has no barring on my sexuality in the same way that it doesn't affect my gender. Those two things are innate to who I am. Deciding to paint my nails pink doesn't change that.

I hope that what I've said made sense and hopefully I wasn't overstepping by replying. If I did overstep then let me know and I will edit my post Regardless I really hope that things get easier for you soon and hopefully some of our lovely nonbinary members will see this and be able to help!

 

[Foreverfox]

been struggling really badly with my identity the last few days. I keep asking myself "well if you don't identify as a male then why wouldn't you identify as female? if it's because of social expectations you have to remember that's not what defines being female, you as a biological female can be/do anything outside the social construct." but there's something about that logic that's flawed, and there's something in me that says "I'm really ****ing tired of identifying as female so I'm nb" but I don't know what that thing is so it makes it really difficult to explain to people why I don't identify as either gender, or specifically why I don't identify and female anymore even though biologically I am one???

like what is it about the prospect of femininity that pushes me away? I feel like it's the social expectations like being a mother, acting lady-like, wearing certain clothes, behaving a certain way. but technically doing none of those things doesn't makes you less of a female. so I can't pinpoint what it is that makes me more comfortable being nb and it is really irking me. I would like to be able to explain myself to my less-accepting conservative family members and friends.
(I think maybe I just resonate more closely with the idea of having a more masculine identity, though not explicitly male, idk)

I think this is just a case of me having really low self esteem and needing constant outside reassurance to feel validated. I just want to tell the whole world "hey I'm non-binary and this is my new name!" but that's so so difficult to do, especially this late in the school year and in my life (I'm almost 22, I've already established who I am to others, and I'm literally about to graduate in a month or so).


maybe someone here can give me some advice?

Hey! I'm sorry to hear that you're having a hard time. I know making so much progress in coming out to your mom and uncle felt really great, so I can imagine this feels like something you weren't necessarily expecting. I cannot speak to this exactly, as I'm a married cus woman, but I imagine that this is part of the process. Much like how grief has stages, I imagine coming out/fully accepting a new identity has stages too. This is probably one of those stages. You're doing some great critical thinking to figure it out though, and you should be proud of that! Why is bothers you to identify or not identify as female or male may be one of those things that doesn't reveal itself immediately. However, when you DO pinpoint what it is that makes you uncomfortable about identifying as either female or male, and you're able to articulate that in conversation to others, you will feel great, just as you felt after telling your mom and uncle! I hope this helps at least a little, but regardless, I support you and I'm here for you! ❤

 

[xSuperMario64x]

I just want to start of with the disclaimer that I am cis woman and have always identified and been comfortable with being cis. I'm nowhere near the best person to reply to this but I have read a few of your posts lately where you've been struggling with this and it breaks my heart. I just want to reach out and let you know that even if I don't have the answers, I still hear you, yunno? You're not just shouting into the void or anything.

I feel like being nonbinary is one of those things that is just innate. Like how being gay, bisexual, straight, or asexual is. It's one of those things that's hard to describe because you just are. You're not any more or less valid for how you present yourself, or how long it took you to come to terms with your identity, or anything like that. Being almost 22 does not in any way, shape, or form make your coming out journey any less than somebody who's known since they were 16 or 12, or 5 years old. Everybody's journey is different.

Yes, you've established yourself to others but the thing about life is as you live it you also grow and change. 12 year old me would've told you I was straight. 15 year old me would've insisted I was at least bisexual. Now here I am nearly 23 and I'm (mostly, I have my days though) comfortable with accepting that I am a lesbian. In the grand scheme of things you're still really young. Plenty of people don't figure out their sexuality or gender identity until they're older because our families, friends, home towns, schools, etc. can all play a really big role in how easy it is for us to learn these things about ourselves.

I hear you though, in that the fact coming out at 22 does feel a lot harder than coming out at 15 or 16. I feel like both stages in life come with challenges. Coming out at 16 you get a lot of, "but you're so young, how can you know for sure?" and then if you wait it's the opposite of, "you're so old surely if this were true you would've said something sooner?". You can't please everybody, the best you can do is try and live a life that's comfortable for you. I think I've read somewhere else that you're staying with your uncle for the summer and he's part of the LGBT+ community and is positive about it? Could staying with him be an opportunity to try out a new name? You'd be in a new place and you might not feel the pressure of, "everybody here already knows me as old name," but moving somewhere new you get to introduce yourself as your new name. Hopefully that makes sense!

As a cis woman I can't really speak on being comfortable with masculinity over femininity but I don't think that plays a huge role in your gender. I think that being nonbinary is just your innate sense of self. You either are or you aren't. I'm a cis woman because hearing she/her pronouns, being referred to as a woman, and being seen as a woman is what makes me comfortable. The fact that I also happen to enjoy wearing skirts/dresses, enjoy painting my nails, doing my makeup, etc. aren't what make me a woman in the same vein that me not wanting to be a mother makes me less of a woman.

There are also plenty of nonbinary people who exist beyond just being androgynous, too! There are nonbinary people who may present more closely with their AGAB or those who may reject their AGAB altogether and one isn't more nonbinary than the other. This is a similar thing we see in lesbian spaces, imo. Not the same, obviously! But feminine lesbians will sometimes get a bad rep for well... being feminine. Because that makes us look more like straight women so in some peoples eyes that means we are straight women. But that's ridiculous. How I dress has no barring on my sexuality in the same way that it doesn't affect my gender. Those two things are innate to who I am. Deciding to paint my nails pink doesn't change that.

I hope that what I've said made sense and hopefully I wasn't overstepping by replying. If I did overstep then let me know and I will edit my post Regardless I really hope that things get easier for you soon and hopefully some of our lovely nonbinary members will see this and be able to help!

I really appreciate it, that's some sound advice. thinking of it as a innate part of me does offer some more insight into it. it's like if someone asked me why I'm non-binary I would prob say "well why are you straight/gay/bi/etc.?" like it's something that you can't completely explain, it's just a part of you. I'm mostly just worried about the fact that I've met so many people through my dad who are traditional conservatives, a lot of them 55+ years old (even my uncle, who is in fact LGBT, had to have me explain what "asexual" and "non-binary" meant lol). I don't want to have to explain it to them. it would be easier for me to tell them and they be like "okay that's cool/fine!" and then go along with it. even if it is just a phase (pretty positive it isn't but who honestly knows) it's always nice to have people be accepting no matter what.

also yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing with going to Alabama to stay with my uncle. I figure, the only people I know there are my mom's family so it would give me a chance to try meeting new people and going by my preferred name as well as passing myself off as someone who isn't explicitly feminine. preferably I would like it if they never used she/her pronouns. maybe it'll end up working out for me, if so that would prob give me a huge boost of confidence.

Hey! I'm sorry to hear that you're having a hard time. I know making so much progress in coming out to your mom and uncle felt really great, so I can imagine this feels like something you weren't necessarily expecting. I cannot speak to this exactly, as I'm a married cus woman, but I imagine that this is part of the process. Much like how grief has stages, I imagine coming out/fully accepting a new identity has stages too. This is probably one of those stages. You're doing some great critical thinking to figure it out though, and you should be proud of that! Why is bothers you to identify or not identify as female or male may be one of those things that doesn't reveal itself immediately. However, when you DO pinpoint what it is that makes you uncomfortable about identifying as either female or male, and you're able to articulate that in conversation to others, you will feel great, just as you felt after telling your mom and uncle! I hope this helps at least a little, but regardless, I support you and I'm here for you! ❤

ty friend. coming out to my mom and uncle was really great cause they're so supportive, though it has been a bit tough because my mom has had some memory issues as of late and she occasionally forgets to not refer to me by my old name, or she calls me her (baby) girl. I mean you can't blame her, after calling me that for 21 years it is difficult to just suddenly change the way you talk lol.

I'm definitely working this out in stages. my main goal right now is trying to phase away from physical attributes that would make me appear explicitly female (like I mentioned before I just got my new binder recently and now I can't not wear it in public). I'm trying to find things that make me feel more empowered; one thing I really want to do is get my own suit (not a woman's suit, a man's suit ofc) cause I love dressing up in stuff like that. I just need to break the existing social views on me, and I'm sure as I mentioned previously that that will be much more easy to accomplish if I try to make a fresh start in a new place.


I think a good way to go about this is for me to remember that gender really is just a social construct. I was just thinking about how my dog doesn't care (or even realize) that he's a boy, he's perfectly content just being who he is. people could take a lesson or two from dogs.

 

[Chris]

It is Lesbian Visibility Day! This day is for celebrating and supporting lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer women.

Does anyone have any favourite WLW media that is created by/for women rather than being designed to appeal to the male gaze? I'd personally recommend the TV series Twenties created and written by Lena Waithe and staring Jonica T. Gibbs - both of whom are lesbian women of colour.

 

[Rubombee]

It is Lesbian Visibility Day! This day is for celebrating and supporting lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer women.

Does anyone have any favourite WLW media that is created by/for women rather than being designed to appeal to the male gaze? I'd personally recommend the TV series Twenties created and written by Lena Waithe and staring Jonica T. Gibbs - both of whom are lesbian women of colour.

Noelle isn't a woman (nonbinary) but She-Ra is pretty gay :D

 

[Chris]

Noelle isn't a woman (nonbinary) but She-Ra is pretty gay :D

She-Ra has been on my list of shows to watch for a while but I didn't know this!

 

[Rubombee]

She-Ra has been on my list of shows to watch for a while but I didn't know this!

It may not be very obvious from the beginning, but I can guarantee there's nice gay in there ;p

 

[Foreverfox]

It may not be very obvious from the beginning, but I can guarantee there's nice gay in there ;p

Yeah, it wasn't obvious to me from the beginning, but I agree, it is obvious later!

 

[xSuperMario64x]

ayyy everyone's favorite apothi/ace back for another ridiculous question because I'm never at ease with my LGBT+ status lmao

so how do you guys define a romantic attraction/relationship? I've been really struggling with defining my romantic orientation because I don't really know all the elements which encompass it, and there seem to be things which are often inherent in romantic relationships that I don't like, but it also seems like not all romantic relationships have those things.

Spoiler: info if anyone wants to help me lol

if it helps I'll describe some of the things I look for in a "romantic" relationship (now I've never been in a relationship like that so this is basically me just imagining things). I've never looked at someone and immediately thought "wow I want to date them." I usually develop some kind of feelings for them after I've grown close to them (leading me to believe I'm potentially demiromantic). I've only ever developed romantic-esque feelings for one friend, and he's a guy; I don't know if I'm interested in women, I'm leaning towards no but it's not out of the question. my idea of dating someone is going everywhere with them and eating with them and playing games and doing activities/hobbies that we both love to do together. I don't like the idea of being really intimate (absolutely not taking off clothes or getting really... touchy) and I don't feel comfortable kissing at all, but I might not object to holding them or curling up in a blanket with them. I would prob always do stuff for them to remind them of how much I adore them (since I can't say "I love you" without feeling awkward for some stupid reason, although I think if I really feel close to them I could normalize saying it). I imagine myself having a kind of relationship that older married couples have, where they really just love each other unconditionally but they don't expect any intimacy.

basically I'm trying to think about what it is about a romantic relationship that separates it from a queer-platonic relationship. what makes people aromantic? how would I know if I'm aromantic or not? I thought I was but I also kinda love the idea of spending my life w someone in an emotionally close, somewhat intimate and completely non-sexualized relationship.

someone pls send help ty

 

[fairysyndrome]

It is Lesbian Visibility Day! This day is for celebrating and supporting lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer women.

Does anyone have any favourite WLW media that is created by/for women rather than being designed to appeal to the male gaze? I'd personally recommend the TV series Twenties created and written by Lena Waithe and staring Jonica T. Gibbs - both of whom are lesbian women of colour.

would like to note that lesbian visibility day is, very specifically, for lesbians -- trans and nonbinary lesbians included, of course, which i'd like to clarify since trans women are mentioned in that listing as a separate entity, but it is very specifically for lesbians. am always happy to uplift and support fellow wlw, and solidarity between different wlw identities is important, but instead of clumping them together it's best to just celebrate them when their own days come by. bi visibility day is i believe september 23rd! and general TDOV for all trans people that aren't specifically the lesbians included in LVD is march 31st!

as for wlw media, i like the manga bloom into you by nio nakatani. it's also got an anime if people prefer to watch rather than read -- it's about a lesbian who doesn't Get romance because she expects feelings for boys to come to her like a big splashy shoujo manga-esque realization, and they don't. a member of student council comes across her turning down a confession and, thinking they're similar people, confesses to her in turn under the request that the MC doesn't actually fall for her. has several WLW characters, including a pair of adults who are seen as essentially role models for the younger ones, that are all taken very seriously. i believe one scene involving a character went viral at one point?

Spoiler: this scene of sayaka saeki, i believe?

https://koito-yuu.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F180413976692

there's a trope known as "class S," or "lesbians until graduation," suggesting that f/f relationships are only temporary schoolgirl whims meant to prepare them for "real" relationships, and this scene was meant to dismantle that.

it's not wlw-specific (although there is a lesbian couple who are very good and important characters and their wedding is a major / main part and focus of the final volume), but i'd also recommend shimanami tasogare by yuhki kamatani. i think it's an incredibly good & important read; it's about a gay teenage boy who moves to the countryside and, feeling alone and suffocated by his inability to come out, stumbles upon a hobby construction company & lounge populated entirely by members of the LGBT community.

Spoiler: content warnings for it, though :

• a bunch of slur usage
• a lot of internalized homophobia by two main characters, & a lot of external homophobia from side characters
• one character struggles from dysphoria they can't quite place and a lot of gender confusion, if that hits hard
• a character who constantly misgenders someone (she is dealt with properly, but she does it a lot without batting an eye)
• i believe there are mentions/ideations of suicide, but it's been a while since my last re-read so i can't remember correctly

really good read, though. do recommend. has gorgeous art and excellent characters + story.

 

[Chris]

would like to note that lesbian visibility day is, very specifically, for lesbians -- trans and nonbinary lesbians included, of course, which i'd like to clarify since trans women are mentioned in that listing as a separate entity, but it is very specifically for lesbians. am always happy to uplift and support fellow wlw, and solidarity between different wlw identities is important, but instead of clumping them together it's best to just celebrate them when their own days come by. bi visibility day is i believe september 23rd! and general TDOV for all trans people that aren't specifically the lesbians included in LVD is march 31st!

It's simply a quote from the Lesbian Visibility Week website.

 

[Croconaw]

—

I don’t think anything makes people aromantic, as with every other sexuality, we are simply born that way. Aesthetic attraction seems to get mistaken as a simple “I like you and want to be with you” attraction. You can like how someone looks without wanting a relationship with them. There are definitely some people I find attractive and it still confuses me on if I’d want something romantic with them or if I just want to be close friends with that person. I always wanted to experience cuddling or holding hands, simply because I haven’t done it before and it wasn’t due to a lack of wanting to. I was really never in a serious relationship. I have absolutely no clue if I’m aromantic, but I do know that I’m asexual. I don’t understand how some people want anything to do with the parts of our bodies in which we use to go to the bathroom. Honestly, I’m content with having a close friend, but I’m not sure if I’d want anything more than that.

To understand if you’re aromantic, I think you need to look at the type of attraction you’re actually feeling? Do you think the person looks cute and you like their aesthetic (aesthetic attraction) or do you desire a romantic relationship (romantic attraction) with them? You can love the idea of a lifelong friendship and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them as your friend. That’s definitely okay. You just have to figure out how you want to spend your life with them. You don’t have to figure it out right now. It could take some time to come to terms with ourselves... and don’t put too much thought into labels. My problem with labels is that people put definitions on labels on what someone should be, and people try fitting those labels or think negatively of themselves if they can’t fit into the label. Don’t stress yourself out too much wondering what you are. Just be yourself.

 

[Mistreil]

ayyy everyone's favorite apothi/ace back for another ridiculous question because I'm never at ease with my LGBT+ status lmao

so how do you guys define a romantic attraction/relationship? I've been really struggling with defining my romantic orientation because I don't really know all the elements which encompass it, and there seem to be things which are often inherent in romantic relationships that I don't like, but it also seems like not all romantic relationships have those things.

Spoiler: info if anyone wants to help me lol

if it helps I'll describe some of the things I look for in a "romantic" relationship (now I've never been in a relationship like that so this is basically me just imagining things). I've never looked at someone and immediately thought "wow I want to date them." I usually develop some kind of feelings for them after I've grown close to them (leading me to believe I'm potentially demiromantic). I've only ever developed romantic-esque feelings for one friend, and he's a guy; I don't know if I'm interested in women, I'm leaning towards no but it's not out of the question. my idea of dating someone is going everywhere with them and eating with them and playing games and doing activities/hobbies that we both love to do together. I don't like the idea of being really intimate (absolutely not taking off clothes or getting really... touchy) and I don't feel comfortable kissing at all, but I might not object to holding them or curling up in a blanket with them. I would prob always do stuff for them to remind them of how much I adore them (since I can't say "I love you" without feeling awkward for some stupid reason, although I think if I really feel close to them I could normalize saying it). I imagine myself having a kind of relationship that older married couples have, where they really just love each other unconditionally but they don't expect any intimacy.

basically I'm trying to think about what it is about a romantic relationship that separates it from a queer-platonic relationship. what makes people aromantic? how would I know if I'm aromantic or not? I thought I was but I also kinda love the idea of spending my life w someone in an emotionally close, somewhat intimate and completely non-sexualized relationship.

someone pls send help ty

speaking from an aro/ace perspective (with insights from past conversations with both aro and allo friends), i think this comes down to a lot of personal opinions and preference. the people in the relationship get to define whether it's romantic or queer platonic (and there may be disagreements on that within the relationship too, and that's for discussions to resolve.)

as a sort of example: some people are perfectly happy with cuddling with their friends, while others would only ever reserve that for their partner. the action of cuddling itself is neither romantic nor aromantic, but everyone has their own thoughts on what actions are special or reserved for people that are special to them.

i think it's very difficult to try to draw clear boundaries on what's considered romantic and what's not, especially as cultural differences play a part (some cultures being more open with physical contact than others, and vice versa). there's alloromantic people that are touch-averse (or indifferent or repulsed), and to some their relationships may seem more like queer platonic partnerships, but it's up to the individuals involved to make the call on whether their relationship is romantic or not.

in a similar way, you get to make the decision on what label you feel most comfortable with (and this can change, too! people are fluid, their thoughts change, and so do relationships, the things they want from a relationship, etc.)

you can be aromantic and still desire a close emotional bond with others. if you're more comfortable using the aromantic label, then do so! you don't have to stick with one label for your entire life, and if you find something suits you better, then use that. just as people experience romantic relationships differently, people experience platonic relationships differently too, and queer-platonic ones.

 

[-Lumi-]

Can I just come here for a minute to vent to my fellow LGBT+ peeps about Rune Factory 5 (seemingly) not having same gender marriage in their game?

It feels like such a petty thing to complain about and I've seen tons of people brush it off and say it's not a big deal but I dunno, it just stings a bit, as somebody who is gay. We saw the remake of Friends of Mineral Town include it, Pioneers of Olive Town includes in, but the game where some of the marriage candidates aren't even fully human doesn't include it? There's just something really off putting about the thought process of, "same gender marriage is too immoral to include in our game but letting somebody marry a bachelor/bachelorette who's part wolf? Sounds good to me!" it just... I dunno. It makes me feel kind of gross, I guess. The game isn't just a dating sim and obviously there's more to it than the marriage elements but like... they're there. Marrying somebody is a fairly big part of the game and I'm just bitter that same gender marriages don't seem like they'll be included.

I was ready to buy the game day 1 (whenever they give us an English release date, at least) but now I'm not so sure. There hasn't been anything explicitly confirmed (to my knowledge, anyways) but it seems like they not only don't have same gender marriage but they also removed the gender sprite swap thing that Rune Factory 4 had. Which definitely wasn't my favourite thing either - I'm not keen on having to play as a guy for the start of my game, then get to look like a girl but still be referred to as a guy all in an effort to marry Forte.

 

[cornimer]

ayyy everyone's favorite apothi/ace back for another ridiculous question because I'm never at ease with my LGBT+ status lmao

so how do you guys define a romantic attraction/relationship? I've been really struggling with defining my romantic orientation because I don't really know all the elements which encompass it, and there seem to be things which are often inherent in romantic relationships that I don't like, but it also seems like not all romantic relationships have those things.

Spoiler: info if anyone wants to help me lol

if it helps I'll describe some of the things I look for in a "romantic" relationship (now I've never been in a relationship like that so this is basically me just imagining things). I've never looked at someone and immediately thought "wow I want to date them." I usually develop some kind of feelings for them after I've grown close to them (leading me to believe I'm potentially demiromantic). I've only ever developed romantic-esque feelings for one friend, and he's a guy; I don't know if I'm interested in women, I'm leaning towards no but it's not out of the question. my idea of dating someone is going everywhere with them and eating with them and playing games and doing activities/hobbies that we both love to do together. I don't like the idea of being really intimate (absolutely not taking off clothes or getting really... touchy) and I don't feel comfortable kissing at all, but I might not object to holding them or curling up in a blanket with them. I would prob always do stuff for them to remind them of how much I adore them (since I can't say "I love you" without feeling awkward for some stupid reason, although I think if I really feel close to them I could normalize saying it). I imagine myself having a kind of relationship that older married couples have, where they really just love each other unconditionally but they don't expect any intimacy.

basically I'm trying to think about what it is about a romantic relationship that separates it from a queer-platonic relationship. what makes people aromantic? how would I know if I'm aromantic or not? I thought I was but I also kinda love the idea of spending my life w someone in an emotionally close, somewhat intimate and completely non-sexualized relationship.

someone pls send help ty

I'm on the ace spectrum but not aromantic. It definitely took a lot of self-reflection for me to be able to distinguish between a close friendship and a romantic interest, but ultimately I determined that the differences for me are:

• Thinking about platonic physical intimacy (e.g. handholding and cuddling) a lot - I realized that I don't crave platonic physical intimacy from normal friendships, but I do if I have romantic feelings for someone.
• Wanting to be with someone all the time - if I don't talk to a regular friend for one day, I won't think much of it, but if I have romantic feelings for someone I'll continuously think about them/wish I was talking to them.
• Imagining living with someone - I don't daydream about living with regular friends, but I do if I have romantic feelings for someone.
• Anxiety - if I have romantic feelings for someone, my anxiety will be constantly acting up (e.g. having an anxiety attack if I think there's even a slight chance the person is mad at me); for a regular friend, I'd still be upset by this but the anxiety would be more manageable.

I definitely think these dividing lines would be different for everyone (e.g. some people might crave platonic physical intimacy from all their friends). It's just a matter of figuring out what are the differences in the ways YOU think about certain people, if there are any.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

I'm on the ace spectrum but not aromantic. It definitely took a lot of self-reflection for me to be able to distinguish between a close friendship and a romantic interest, but ultimately I determined that the differences for me are:

• Thinking about platonic physical intimacy (e.g. handholding and cuddling) a lot - I realized that I don't crave platonic physical intimacy from normal friendships, but I do if I have romantic feelings for someone.
• Wanting to be with someone all the time - if I don't talk to a regular friend for one day, I won't think much of it, but if I have romantic feelings for someone I'll continuously think about them/wish I was talking to them.
• Imagining living with someone - I don't daydream about living with regular friends, but I do if I have romantic feelings for someone.
• Anxiety - if I have romantic feelings for someone, my anxiety will be constantly acting up (e.g. having an anxiety attack if I think there's even a slight chance the person is mad at me); for a regular friend, I'd still be upset by this but the anxiety would be more manageable.

I definitely think these dividing lines would be different for everyone (e.g. some people might crave platonic physical intimacy from all their friends). It's just a matter of figuring out what are the differences in the ways YOU think about certain people, if there are any.

out of the replies I've gotten this one is the most helpful. I think the reason why I was so easily able to determine that I'm ace is that, at least to me, sexuality is a pretty cut-and-dry thing and it's clearly defined by certain characteristics. romantic attraction isn't so easy to decipher. it's even harder for me cause, as I (probably) mentioned before, I've never been in a romantic relationship w someone so I'm not even sure exactly where my limits lie. I think for now it would be best for me to leave a label off of my romantic orientation. I may end up never actually labeling it, but I'm okay with that.

it's funny cause I seem to relate a lot of things you said to my friend whom I've mentioned multiple times in different posts on this forum. I'm too afraid to tell him anything (about how I feel, I never received a lot of affection from my dad so I've always been a bit weary around guys) so ofc we're just friends for now but I relate to almost everything there. talking to him everyday and getting sad/upset when I don't talk to him for a day? check. imagining living with him? check. anxiety constantly acting up if I feel like he's upset about anything or upset at me? absolutely! only thing I don't really think about is the physical intimacy part, though tbh I'm that way with everyone. I've never really been a touchy-feely person, but I wonder if that would change if I got into an official relationship.

it's so wild cause I've never met him in person, but I've known him online for over four years and his grandma actually lives like 25 min away from my house. I haven't gone to visit yet cause school I'm hoping to visit this summer though, I often think about all the fun stuff we could do together (cause we have a lot of shared interests). I guess I'll have to see how it goes in the coming months :x

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2021

Can I just come here for a minute to vent to my fellow LGBT+ peeps about Rune Factory 5 (seemingly) not having same gender marriage in their game?

It feels like such a petty thing to complain about and I've seen tons of people brush it off and say it's not a big deal but I dunno, it just stings a bit, as somebody who is gay. We saw the remake of Friends of Mineral Town include it, Pioneers of Olive Town includes in, but the game where some of the marriage candidates aren't even fully human doesn't include it? There's just something really off putting about the thought process of, "same gender marriage is too immoral to include in our game but letting somebody marry a bachelor/bachelorette who's part wolf? Sounds good to me!" it just... I dunno. It makes me feel kind of gross, I guess. The game isn't just a dating sim and obviously there's more to it than the marriage elements but like... they're there. Marrying somebody is a fairly big part of the game and I'm just bitter that same gender marriages don't seem like they'll be included.

I was ready to buy the game day 1 (whenever they give us an English release date, at least) but now I'm not so sure. There hasn't been anything explicitly confirmed (to my knowledge, anyways) but it seems like they not only don't have same gender marriage but they also removed the gender sprite swap thing that Rune Factory 4 had. Which definitely wasn't my favourite thing either - I'm not keen on having to play as a guy for the start of my game, then get to look like a girl but still be referred to as a guy all in an effort to marry Forte.

this isn't a bad thing at all, I think that the LGBT+ community doesn't get nearly as much attention in popular media as we should.

I can relate to this too, I started playing Tomodachi Life back in like 2018-2019 and I remember being so upset that Miis who were the same sex/gender can't date or marry each other. there's a slight work around, but it's kinda odd. if you want two guys to date each other one of them has to be labeled as "female." I did this with one of my Miis, everything else (appearance, clothes, etc) were still as if he were a guy but his gender is put as female so he could date one of the other guys, kinda like what you mentioned above.

it's really awkward and it would've been so much easier if they had just given the option for who a particular Mii likes. like maybe on the option screen where it asks for their age/name/etc there could be an option that's like "who is this Mii interested in?" and then you could put men, women, both, or neither. that would be a great place to start. if Nintendo ever makes another Tomodachi Life game and they do that I'm buying it day one.

 

[frogslime]

Dunno if this is the right thread to ask or not, but does anyone have any personal advice on binding safely without a binder?
Last I tried it was a bit hard to breathe.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

Dunno if this is the right thread to ask or not, but does anyone have any personal advice on binding safely without a binder?
Last I tried it was a bit hard to breathe.

so I went for a few months without a binder, ended up caving in and buying one bc they work reeeeally well. but before I got one I had some tight-fitting sports bras that I would layer on until my chest was as flat as i could get it. I even made them a bit tighter with safety pins but you have to be really careful cause they could suddenly open up. it won't be totally flat (at least, not as flat as a binder could make it) but this method worked okay for me.

I would advise against using an ace bandage since they're made to restrict movement. also don't bind for more than 6-8 hours at a time and also take breaks twice a week!

If you're wondering I got my binder from gc2b and it was a little pricey but totally worth the investment