Mafia TBT Mafia III: The Murder Before Christmas [Game Over/Town Win]

[Laurina]

I actually really really liked your proposal speech and feel like you definitely didn't get enough recognition here. No one asked you any questions or tried to analyse your proposal, and I'd like to hear more about what you have to say about what you'd do in the mayoral role. For example, how would you proceed to stop a lynching of someone you suspect to be innocent? How would you provide enough evidence that you are of the town? I'd like to hear more from you.

My speech really got swept under the rug. People seemed more focused on shooting down Karla's campaign than to realize when others tried to chime in they didn't even look twice. I gave it a shot, the majority out there doesn't seem willing to give me a chance. I don't want it to seem like I've completely given up, since I know I can be an asset for the town without an elected role.
Justin is 100% right about this:

The issue with her is that we have very, very little to go by on how she plays. She was killed the very first night last game, and wasn't present at all in the first game. So she could potentially be quite dangerous as we don't know how she usually plays much. Definitely a smart player though, there's a reason we picked to kill her the first night in the last game!

I completely understand why I'd be considered a gamble into an elected role. I could do really well or I can be really destructive without knowing what I'm getting myself into. I haven't been able to prove myself, and I was hoping this game would be my chance. I'm still a newer player in the Mafia scene, I play smart, but I'm nowhere near as experienced as others. This right now is my experience and I'm still learning along the way.

The odds are really against me. If I go to bed in a couple hours like I plan, I probably won't be waking up until close to when the election closes, just keep those questions you have towards me in mind. If I'm kept alive long enough, I will be proving them both throughout my game play.

 

[Farobi]

So I am seeing that KarlaKGB is currently the leading candidate for mayorship, which is completely fine with me. I'm not voting for him simply because I'd like to bring someone new to the table (and Karla himself expressed his preferred role as a sheriff). But anyways, here are my opinions on the rest of the candidates who are nominated by the people.

Trundle - One of his posts (post 663) made me more inclined to vote for him as opposed to someone who I was about to nominate earlier (will go further on this in a bit). This section in particular influenced my vote:

"Do you want a team that works well together or are always at each other's backs? Clearly, if two people who don't understand the other's way of thinking and are always against each other are elected, this will create problems for the town. It will definitely impede the town's progress and probably create a bunch of unneeded suspicions through the town taking sides of their favorite candidate."

If both (him and Karla) are indeed town, then Mafia may be in for some trouble because of their backstage discussions through PMs and their ability to analyze posts well. But like everyone else, I do have some mild suspicions on them because they seem to be pushing the players to vote for either of them. Nonetheless, I see them as a great duo who will hopefully lead the town to the right path. I mean seriously, Karla's first campaign post in itself is a terrific guide for the town if he turns out Mafia or not lol.

LaurinaMN - She was the other candidate who I was opting to nominate and vote for. Her initial campaign post should've been more acknowledged but unfortunately it was brushed aside by the "Karla: Mafia or not?" arguments. I would've still voted for her, but Justin pointed out that her minimal involvement in the previous game may be an advantage if she is Mafia, which holds me back even more.

VillageDweller - If you can see post 562, he says this in a section of his campaign:

I would also personally help out anyone who's willing to contact me, via PM or w/e you want. I will gladly give advice, discuss things with you, personal planning etc and help you out as much as I possibly can.

I do not know how the other town players are going to go about this, but for me this post is similar to "I want information" and actual helping to the least of his concerns. Not only that, but the influx of votes in his favor after his speech makes me feel suspicious on a bunch of players, but if some supporters turn out Town then I probably wouldn't suspect VD as much. I may be dead wrong on this (which is 90% what i expect lol) but I personally think he is the most suspicious of the bunch.

---

Just a note:

I'm quite paranoid of the fact that we elected two scum leaders from last game so that is most likely why I'm leaving leaving every candidate out there with a hint of my suspicions, but we should remember that electing a mayor | sheriff does not automatically indicate that you should believe everything they say. Use your logic, find time to analyze by yourself, and if you feel the need to speak up, then do it!

also fyi this post took me an hour to make because im on a phone so if I only post twice during this d/n cycle, please reconsider the modkill because some posters here take less than 30 minutes to post like 3 things. good bye

 

[Chris]

I think Justin's point of choosing someone who is nearer the "middle" range rather than one of the strongest players would be wise. But, unlike him, I wouldn't be shy to nominate someone p) if I had better knowledge of how more people play. As a mere observer up until this game I can only really recall the play styles of people who really stuck out.


As far as I can tell Hikari has withdrawn from the running. Aside from him, I have already ruled out voting for:

• Laurina - because I have seen no evidence so far that proves her as a good leader.
  
  
• VillageDweller - because I'm uncertain of the PM advice idea. I can see a way that could be done without anyone informing him of their roles, but at the same time it could prove risky and sabotage town if he trusts the wrong people. His downfall in the last game was ignoring his gut instinct and being misled by mafia, after all.

This leaves Karla, Trundle, and River. Although I said above that I agree with Justin about not voting in a strong player, I will admit that I am leaning towards Karla. I'm not going to bring up old arguments (as I think we have all established by now that we'd be taking a gamble voting him in) but I do think he would be a strong leader.

Trundle doesn't particularly stand out to me. Even his candidacy post doesn't grip me. The line "Do you want a team that works well together or are always at each other's backs?" actually makes me a little cautious of Karla/Trundle. I think I actually like the idea of our elected roles being wary of each other - because that means if one of them is mafia then the other hopefully won't be easily tricked. Maybe my mind will change over the course of today but for now the idea of the two of them being in power together just doesn't sit well with me.

I don't have strong opinions on River either way, which is why I personally think she would be a safe bet - either beside Karla or Trundle.

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

Good morning. What have I missed?

 

[KarlaKGB]

Good morning. What have I missed?

You can start with this:

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...re-Christmas&p=2055529&viewfull=1#post2055529

Also I don't understand this post:

I've answered all the questions truthfully, guys. I'm not telling lies here, and what I said about Blu was true. I'm not quite sure if they're Mafia or Town. I'm getting off, so if you want to keep having me answer questions, PM me.

How do you plan to answer questions via PM if you're not on?

 

[Thunder]

@Laurina: My memory's a little foggy, but last game you didn't have any plans on running for Mayor/Sheriff, correct? What changed?

 

[cannedcommunism]

Karla seems to have everybody eating from the palm of his hand. It makes perfect sense for me that if he was mafia, he'd gun so hard for mayor or sheriff, and everyone is doing exactly what he wants them to do.

Did anybody learn from last game that the two who wanted the elected roles so bad were later found to be mafia?

Barely anybody.

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

You can start with this:

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...re-Christmas&p=2055529&viewfull=1#post2055529

Also I don't understand this post:

How do you plan to answer questions via PM if you're not on?

Answer them in the morning. But I will simplify all the questions last night for me: Blu and I did not share game-changing info and it's not much of anything. But I don't really think that matters anymore, because there's more important crap to talk about, like the new mayor candidates.

 

[EpicGamer12]

This leaves Karla, Trundle, and River. Although I said above that I agree with Justin about not voting in a strong player, I will admit that I am leaning towards Karla. I'm not going to bring up old arguments (as I think we have all established by now that we'd be taking a gamble voting him in) but I do think he would be a strong leader.

Trundle doesn't particularly stand out to me. Even his candidacy post doesn't grip me. The line "Do you want a team that works well together or are always at each other's backs?" actually makes me a little cautious of Karla/Trundle. I think I actually like the idea of our elected roles being wary of each other - because that means if one of them is mafia then the other hopefully won't be easily tricked. Maybe my mind will change over the course of today but for now the idea of the two of them being in power together just doesn't sit well with me.

I don't have strong opinions on River either way, which is why I personally think she would be a safe bet - either beside Karla or Trundle.

I do really like what you're saying here and you have every right possible to make you feel a bit cautious. Cautious is probably how you should feel at every point in the game playing mafia, truthfully, haha.
When I said work well together, I'm not saying we aren't wary of each other. I will still be analyzing what he says, watching his posts, etc, to look for any signs of him being mafia. You have every reason to be cautious, but rest assured, I will still be watching him, and he will definitely still be watching me.
I don't have any opinions of River so far, due to her not making very many lengthy posts. (correct me if I'm wrong)
For now I'm sticking with myself, for the Karla and I combo. I really do like your post and appreciate that you have been thinking into things unlike a lot of the people so far this game. :/

 

[Blu Rose]

Well, I'm going to vote for Karla. He (Tags, please be right!) has so far made the best argument, in my opinion, and, although with the flame war and all, people did point out that we could still lynch him. Thus, I say one thing: Karla for mayor/sheriff!

 

[EpicGamer12]

Well, I'm going to vote for Karla. He (Tags, please be right!) has so far made the best argument, in my opinion, and, although with the flame war and all, people did point out that we could still lynch him. Thus, I say one thing: Karla for mayor/sheriff!

Well if you keep voting for him, he's going to end up getting mayor when he more wants Sheriff... I'd say you should probably vote for your second choice.

 

[KarlaKGB]

Karla seems to have everybody eating from the palm of his hand. It makes perfect sense for me that if he was mafia, he'd gun so hard for mayor or sheriff, and everyone is doing exactly what he wants them to do.

Did anybody learn from last game that the two who wanted the elected roles so bad were later found to be mafia?

This is the highest concentration of WRONG I've seen in a post so far. I'll address the first paragraph first:

I most certainly do not have everyone eating from the palm of my hand. Everyone so far has raised legitimate concerns about how there is no way to confirm me at this stage of the game. You have Kippla who is asking the same questions, flogging the same dead horse, who then leaps straight onto VD's campaign despite the same concerns being present. Then there's Foxwolf, someone who has had it in for me from his very first post. It started off almost constructively, but has devolved into snappy garbage one-liners

Spoiler

That's it, I'm withdrawing my vote and voting for VillageDweller instead. You're pretty much saying that you're some kind of god and everybody has to vote for you. And to answer your question, to get elected in the first place. That's what Jubs and Kayla did last game, and you know what happened afterward. To me, it's beginning to look like your trying too hard to be elected, saying you're the only one who should be trusted. If you get elected and you turn out to be mafia, then shame on the town. Instead, I'm going for my second option, VillageDweller. Although he hasn't survived all the way through during the last 2 games, he has been a valuable source, like when he pointed out Kayla being the Godfather. So at the end of the day, VillageDweller is a better candidate at this point.

First sentence especially, look at the petulant attitude here. Makes it sound like he's trying to punish me. Look at the post of mine he's quoting there, was it such a bad post that it's driven him over the edge to vote VD. What we have here is a player who is completely overanalysing the game and is wrapped up in his own little wifom world. Avoid this person, he will overthink himself to death and town along with it.


Your second "paragraph" about how the two who wanted the elected roles the most were Mafia? Wrong. Go back and read Day 1 of that game. None of them came out with a strong election post. Before they even posted, people were already worshipping them. They were rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of being able to just waltz straight in and claim the election off of no work. Quite frankly, they were scared of coming out straight away. They wanted to see what the town mood was first, and when people basically invited them to become Mayor/Sheriff, they took perfect advantage of that.

This post as a whole disappoints me River, I expected better from a player like you.

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

This is the highest concentration of WRONG I've seen in a post so far. I'll address the first paragraph first:

I most certainly do not have everyone eating from the palm of my hand. Everyone so far has raised legitimate concerns about how there is no way to confirm me at this stage of the game. You have Kippla who is asking the same questions, flogging the same dead horse, who then leaps straight onto VD's campaign despite the same concerns being present. Then there's Foxwolf, someone who has had it in for me from his very first post. It started off almost constructively, but has devolved into snappy garbage one-liners

First sentence especially, look at the petulant attitude here. Makes it sound like he's trying to punish me. Look at the post of mine he's quoting there, was it such a bad post that it's driven him over the edge to vote VD. What we have here is a player who is completely overanalysing the game and is wrapped up in his own little wifom world. Avoid this person, he will overthink himself to death and town along with it.


Your second "paragraph" about how the two who wanted the elected roles the most were Mafia? Wrong. Go back and read Day 1 of that game. None of them came out with a strong election post. Before they even posted, people were already worshipping them. They were rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of being able to just waltz straight in and claim the election off of no work. Quite frankly, they were scared of coming out straight away. They wanted to see what the town mood was first, and when people basically invited them to become Mayor/Sheriff, they took perfect advantage of that.

This post as a whole disappoints me River, I expected better from a player like you.

The only reason it went so smoothly is the exact same reason you're trying to push; we trusted the officials too quickly and it led to our easy defeat. How exactly would you like us to play differently? We're not trusting you right away, we're asking questions and discussing. It's either be suspicious or trust them right away. You have to trust that they'll do what they promise, or else you'll be voting for yourself if you don't trust any of them to do what they promised and be a good mayor.

 

[EpicGamer12]

The only reason it went so smoothly is the exact same reason you're trying to push; we trusted the officials too quickly and it led to our easy defeat. How exactly would you like us to play differently? We're not trusting you right away, we're asking questions and discussing. It's either be suspicious or trust them right away. You have to trust that they'll do what they promise, or else you'll be voting for yourself if you don't trust any of them to do what they promised and be a good mayor.

I think you're missing the whole point. Yeah, it went smoothly for them. Many people trusted them right away. No one is saying to trust the people running here right away. The mayor and sheriff role are not some super godly roles. You have to read the posts, analyze them, and vote you think is the best fit. Obviously, those who are good analyzers will make great elected positions because these elected position are ones that keep them alive. They have a lot more freedom to analyze all the they want. Obviously, if they are performing poorly, that gives you good reason to suspect them as mafia. If they do good, they are probably town. It will be really easy for you all to suspect who is mafia this game because you clearly all have developed trust issues from the last.
All you and Foxwolf have done in this game so far is ask really dumb questions over and over again and randomly switching your vote to someone who has hardly made an argument. Why didn't you even vote for VillageDweller? You are saying you don't trust Karla, which is understandable, but why do you trust VillageDweller? You hardly asked him any questions. He's a great player, just like us. Is he, perhaps, your mafia leader?

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

I think you're missing the whole point. Yeah, it went smoothly for them. Many people trusted them right away. No one is saying to trust the people running here right away. The mayor and sheriff role are not some super godly roles. You have to read the posts, analyze them, and vote you think is the best fit. Obviously, those who are good analyzers will make great elected positions because these elected position are ones that keep them alive. They have a lot more freedom to analyze all the they want. Obviously, if they are performing poorly, that gives you good reason to suspect them as mafia. If they do good, they are probably town. It will be really easy for you all to suspect who is mafia this game because you clearly all have developed trust issues from the last.
All you and Foxwolf have done in this game so far is ask really dumb questions over and over again and randomly switching your vote to someone who has hardly made an argument. Why didn't you even vote for VillageDweller? You are saying you don't trust Karla, which is understandable, but why do you trust VillageDweller? You hardly asked him any questions. He's a great player, just like us. Is he, perhaps, your mafia leader?

I already gave my reasons for voting, go back if you want to see them. You can suspect me all you like, but if you do lynch me, all you're doing is lynching a Townie. Besides, he's played the last games and I've seen how he handles things so there wasn't much need to ask questions if I've already seen the answers.

 

[EpicGamer12]

I already gave my reasons for voting, go back if you want to see them. You can suspect me all you like, but if you do lynch me, all you're doing is lynching a Townie. Besides, he's played the last games and I've seen how he handles things so there wasn't much need to ask questions if I've already seen the answers.

He only made it to Night 1 and Night 2 of the last two games. You have only seen his early game play, not his full game play. You have no idea how he plays at other points in the game, or when he's being accused, etc. And clearly, he's not putting as much effort into his posts as Karla and I are due to laziness (as he said in the IRC). Do you really want him? I was the only player last game to successfully suspect and get a mafia lynched.

 

[KarlaKGB]

The only reason it went so smoothly is the exact same reason you're trying to push; we trusted the officials too quickly and it led to our easy defeat. How exactly would you like us to play differently? We're not trusting you right away, we're asking questions and discussing. It's either be suspicious or trust them right away. You have to trust that they'll do what they promise, or else you'll be voting for yourself if you don't trust any of them to do what they promised and be a good mayor.

My post was made in response to River's terrible post about how I have everyone eating out of my hand. I am not at all criticising people questioning me and not trusting me. However, I am getting frustrated because that is ALL people are doing. We have already established that neither I, nor anyone else running can be trusted and confirmed at this point.

I have been trying to move people on from this stupid discussion that is leading nowhere, so that they can focus on injecting new ideas for town? Day 1 ends in a lynch. Do we have any suspects? I want names to be put down. Straight up DT checklists are a bad idea this game, as are medic lists to a degree. But getting names down forces discussion. Why is someone on that list? Why isn't someone on that list? That forces people to become personally involved. Why is this person soft/hard defending that person on the list? This is how you catch red slips. We need more strong personalities in this thread. Arguments and clashes between players with large thread presence may seem counterproductive but they get things done. We need an ingame thought circle, if people are bouncing ideas back and forth, what ultimately comes out is stronger analysis.

 

[Superpenguin]

Do you really want him? I was the only player last game to successfully suspect and get a mafia lynched.

I'm sorry, what?
While, yes, you did suspect Hikari a day earlier than Kayla made the announcement of him being mafia, you failed to get the town in agreement to lynching him that day.

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

If I recall, he was killed off early because he was a good player and right off the bat, he would suspect a Mafia player and it would turn out to be correct. Being either the Mayor or Sheriff offers more protection, so we can all see how he does farther in the game because no one knows how he will do. There is a chance he's Mafia, of course, but if we notice he steps out of line, we can just lynch him.

- - - Post Merge - - -

My post was made in response to River's terrible post about how I have everyone eating out of my hand. I am not at all criticising people questioning me and not trusting me. However, I am getting frustrated because that is ALL people are doing. We have already established that neither I, nor anyone else running can be trusted and confirmed at this point.

I have been trying to move people on from this stupid discussion that is leading nowhere, so that they can focus on injecting new ideas for town? Day 1 ends in a lynch. Do we have any suspects? I want names to be put down. Straight up DT checklists are a bad idea this game, as are medic lists to a degree. But getting names down forces discussion. Why is someone on that list? Why isn't someone on that list? That forces people to become personally involved. Why is this person soft/hard defending that person on the list? This is how you catch red slips. We need more strong personalities in this thread. Arguments and clashes between players with large thread presence may seem counterproductive but they get things done. We need an ingame thought circle, if people are bouncing ideas back and forth, what ultimately comes out is stronger analysis.

So, basically, we should create a circle of people to share ideas and make a list of suspects, forcing them to come out and see if they slip up because no one's been paying any attention to that? Just want to make sure I'm not totally missing the point here, which is what I usually end up doing.

 

[EpicGamer12]

I'm sorry, what?
While, yes, you did suspect Hikari a day earlier than Kayla made the announcement of him being mafia, you failed to get the town in agreement to lynching him that day.

On the first day, yes, but that's because whatever other idiot was there (beary or 3dsfan) was taking up all the votes and I posted my suspicions of Hikari towards the end of day. The next day Kayla did help but I mostly furthered my suspicions on my own. From reading the mafia chat, Hikari was in a bit of a panic which led him to role claim as Miller.

If I recall, he was killed off early because he was a good player and right off the bat, he would suspect a Mafia player and it would turn out to be correct. Being either the Mayor or Sheriff offers more protection, so we can all see how he does farther in the game because no one knows how he will do. There is a chance he's Mafia, of course, but if we notice he steps out of line, we can just lynch him.

The only reason I wasn't killed off early was because I was a bodyguard and was indirectly helping the mafia. Also, do Karla and I not look like good choices to you? I'm just confused about why you chose him over us? I'm just as much a player as he and Karla, as you can probably see, is a lot better than all of us.