LGBTQA - Discussion and support.

[Mephisto Pheles]

I see what you're saying in that most people would assume you're straight, but I guess what I'm aiming at here is why does it matter? I mean, say Rex Ryan has a foot fetish, he doesn't tell every one he knows- hey man, just so you know, I have a foot fetish.

A guy I worked for, I worked for him for months before in conversation he mentioned in passing he had a boyfriend. I didn't care, but he certainly didn't make it a point to say- hey, you're gonna work for me, I need you to know I'm homosexual.

I think most people know every body has differences in their sexual orientations. I just don't think people want to talk about it so casually in passing. I won't discuss bedroom talk with any body I don't know well enough.

And when I say defines a person, I feel theres a strong stereotype that may simply be a stereotype. IE people talking with lisps, enjoying theater, watching Glee, etc etc, simply because it's what homosexual people DO. I've seen bits and pieces of the LGBT parade, and it's hard for me to not think this is something people use to expressively define who they are. Almost an- in your face I'm LGBT get over it type deal.

And I guess sort of like this thread, I'm not sure why people feel the need to conjure and go- YES I AM LGBT! I certainly don't feel the need to express my sexual orientations.

It matters to LGBT+ people because it still "matters" to a lot of anti-LGBT+ people. Homophobia and transphobia are still big issues - it just seems less common because, unlike in the past, you can actually get in trouble for saying homophobic/transphobic things.

As for the stereotype thing... I think those type of gay people appear to be "louder" about it, simply because they're the ones who receive the brunt of homophobia. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like "I'm cool with the gays so long as they're not like, really flamboyant", "gay guys are okay, but I hate flamers", etc. Hell, they get that kinda crap from within the LGBT community itself.
Ever heard a gay man call himself "straight acting"? These guys put masculinity on a pedestal, and loathe feminine gay men with a passion.

 

[GameLaxer]

I'm popping in here just to ask a quick question, and it's a tough question, but I mean it with sincerity as there are a lot of people, here specifically, who identify with this. It may have been discussed here all ready, but 172 pages is way too much for me to search through

I am not for, and certainly not against LGBT, it's a mostly neutral issue to me, not having known any body who so strongly identifies with this scene. I've known homosexuals, but none who announce loudly about being a homosexual.

And that leads me to my question, and I apologize if this comes off as offensive to any one, but I really want to know why people try so hard to use their sexuality as a means to define them? If any one is homosexual, bisexual, transgendered or whatever, why do they feel the need to use this as a measure to gauge who they are?

I remember a few years ago Rex Ryan, the football coach, was caught adoring his wife's feet, or something to that extent. He obviously had a foot fetish, and it was a bit of an embarrassment to him. I don't believe he felt shame in having a foot fetish, but rather people were invading what should have been personal to him and his wife.

So why is it that particularly in the LGBT scene that sexuality is used as a way to define who people are? I know there are BDSM movements, but I've never seen on the media, read about or heard any one talk about it. It seems to be a culture kept hidden in the bedrooms, and not something as a way to strongly pronounce who people are. The same applies to never hearing hetero's talking about how hetero they are. I also never hear about pedophiles talking about how their pedophilia defines who they are, etc etc etc. ONLY the LGBT scene, and a lot of it MAY be media fueled, but seeing the popularity of this topic on the website does spark my curiosity.

LGBT isn't a new thing, it's been around since, as far as I know, recorded history. It's strange to see a surging of people who identify with their sexual practices SO strongly, that they use it to define who they are. I don't think in the long run people want to hear about what people's sexual preferences are. Is it no longer a private matter? Am I just out of the loop here?

I apologize again if this came off as offensive, as none of it was intended to be, I just have never asked any one about this.

For starters, I do want to acknowledge that I appreciate your asking the question in a respectful manner. However, I do want to explain, that sexual orientation does not define a person, as people are multifaceted. Sexual orientation affects what goes on in the bedroom, yes, but it also can have an effect on social life, behavior, etc. as well, which may be why you thing that it defines a person. For example, if a person within the LGBT+ community feels more comfortable associating with others within that same community, that is just a matter of friend-choice and a feeling of belonging (don't you get along better with people you feel comfortable around and share common interests?) and, as for behavior or appearance, a lot of LGBT+ people have been ashamed of themselves or not been able to fully express themselves because of societal norms. As a result, what the majority of society may see as "in your face" actions or appearances are actually just people trying to express who they are and are hoping not to be judged.

There wis also the issue of homophobia. If the people in the LGBT+ community were to be entirely complacent, then positive changes in opinion (law, etc.) regarding the community would never happen. Some people in the LGBT+ community are just more subtle about their sexual orientation, not because it isn't a part of them, but because they feel as if it shouldn't matter or they are afraid of judgement; the assumption is that someone is straight, and until being LGBT+ is considered on par with heterosexuality, then the sexual orientation in the LGBT+ community will always seem more..."in your face."

 

[rockthemike13]

Why does it matter? Hum, well, maybe because if no one around you knows they'll most probably flip their **** if they find out any other way. And also because not telling anyone is called being the closet, and that's unhealthy. As long as LGBT+ isn't considered by most of society just as normal as being straight it's something people need to get out there. I'm not saying rub it in people's faces, but I believe it's important to let your friends and relatives know. Also because it's a part of you you want accepted by those who matter to you.

I'm sorry but you can't compare letting people know about your sexuality to letting people know you have a foot fetish...
And discussing sexuality isn't bedroom talk either.

Yeah, comparing sexual orientation to fetishes is a stretch. But I do feel it's the same playing field. Whats the difference between saying- I am turned on by feet as opposed to- I am turned on by people of my gender?

I think it's one thing to say- I am in love with a man.
And another to say- I prefer men sexually.
I kind of consider that bedroom talk, it's in regards to what turns you on sexually.

Does that make any more sense?

 

[katsuragi]

I'm popping in here just to ask a quick question, and it's a tough question, but I mean it with sincerity as there are a lot of people, here specifically, who identify with this. It may have been discussed here all ready, but 172 pages is way too much for me to search through

I am not for, and certainly not against LGBT, it's a mostly neutral issue to me, not having known any body who so strongly identifies with this scene. I've known homosexuals, but none who announce loudly about being a homosexual.

And that leads me to my question, and I apologize if this comes off as offensive to any one, but I really want to know why people try so hard to use their sexuality as a means to define them? If any one is homosexual, bisexual, transgendered or whatever, why do they feel the need to use this as a measure to gauge who they are?

I remember a few years ago Rex Ryan, the football coach, was caught adoring his wife's feet, or something to that extent. He obviously had a foot fetish, and it was a bit of an embarrassment to him. I don't believe he felt shame in having a foot fetish, but rather people were invading what should have been personal to him and his wife.

So why is it that particularly in the LGBT scene that sexuality is used as a way to define who people are? I know there are BDSM movements, but I've never seen on the media, read about or heard any one talk about it. It seems to be a culture kept hidden in the bedrooms, and not something as a way to strongly pronounce who people are. The same applies to never hearing hetero's talking about how hetero they are. I also never hear about pedophiles talking about how their pedophilia defines who they are, etc etc etc. ONLY the LGBT scene, and a lot of it MAY be media fueled, but seeing the popularity of this topic on the website does spark my curiosity.

LGBT isn't a new thing, it's been around since, as far as I know, recorded history. It's strange to see a surging of people who identify with their sexual practices SO strongly, that they use it to define who they are. I don't think in the long run people want to hear about what people's sexual preferences are. Is it no longer a private matter? Am I just out of the loop here?

I apologize again if this came off as offensive, as none of it was intended to be, I just have never asked any one about this.

well first of all, foot fetishes and sexuality are not comparable and it's quite offensive to suggest that someone's sexuality is equal to a fetish (i realise that isn't what you actually said but it very heavily implied). obviously you are straight and i'm going to go ahead and assume that you're cisgender too. with those two massive privelages, you can freely use the internet to tell people you're straight, and you can freely tell people in real life too.

a vast majority of the LGBTQA+ communtity only have the oppurtunity to publicise their sexuality on the internet, because we can put up different identites and a whole lot of other things that will make us feel safe. how often do you hear people in real life tell others that they are have a sexuality that's not straight? you answered that yourself, rarely (correct me if i'm wrong). real life can be an unsafe environment because you can't change what you said, you can't pretend to be someone else.

people announce their sexuality online often because it is safe and believe it or not, LGBTQA+ folk are also people, and how would you feel if you had to keep a massive part of your identity hidden away?

 

[GameLaxer]

well first of all, foot fetishes and sexuality are not comparable and it's quite offensive to suggest that someone's sexuality is equal to a fetish (i realise that isn't what you actually said but it very heavily implied). obviously you are straight and i'm going to go ahead and assume that you're cisgender too. with those two massive privelages, you can freely use the internet to tell people you're straight, and you can freely tell people in real life too.

a vast majority of the LGBTQA+ communtity only have the oppurtunity to publicise their sexuality on the internet, because we can put up different identites and a whole lot of other things that will make us feel safe. how often do you hear people in real life tell others that they are have a sexuality that's not straight? you answered that yourself, rarely (correct me if i'm wrong). real life can be an unsafe environment because you can't change what you said, you can't pretend to be someone else.

people announce their sexuality online often because it is safe and believe it or not, LGBTQA+ folk are also people, and how would you feel if you had to keep a massive part of your identity hidden away? please have some respect.

I agree with the majority of your post, and how the internet is an outlet for LGBTQA+ people to express themselves freely, however, in certain regards, fetishes are a part of peoples' sexual preferences, and may be ingrained in them, just like gender or sex preference is. Obviously I think that sexual orientation and fetishes are different, but what's to say that both of them can't be a part of someone's identity?

 

[rockthemike13]

well first of all, foot fetishes and sexuality are not comparable and it's quite offensive to suggest that someone's sexuality is equal to a fetish (i realise that isn't what you actually said but it very heavily implied). obviously you are straight and i'm going to go ahead and assume that you're cisgender too. with those two massive privelages, you can freely use the internet to tell people you're straight, and you can freely tell people in real life too.

a vast majority of the LGBTQA+ communtity only have the oppurtunity to publicise their sexuality on the internet, because we can put up different identites and a whole lot of other things that will make us feel safe. how often do you hear people in real life tell others that they are have a sexuality that's not straight? you answered that yourself, rarely (correct me if i'm wrong). real life can be an unsafe environment because you can't change what you said, you can't pretend to be someone else.

people announce their sexuality online often because it is safe and believe it or not, LGBTQA+ folk are also people, and how would you feel if you had to keep a massive part of your identity hidden away? please have some respect.

Sorry if I've offended you, I was afraid people would be super touchy about what I was suggesting.

I would like to make it clear though, I don't consider it a privilege to be able to tell people I'm straight. I /don't/ tell people I'm straight, because people don't ask. I don't announce online that I'm straight, or cisgendered (I have NO idea what that means), or any thing. I don't let my sexuality define me, which was my original question.

And you're right, it's not often you don't hear people say they aren't straight. But there are a lot of not oftens that you hear from people, and they don't feel threatened by being in a minority.
And I've never said any thing about any body not being people. In fact, I was trying to say that no matter what the preference, every bodies a person. I was more so wrapped up in why it matters in the first place, and why your sexual preference is used to identify who you are.

Yeesh, I wasn't disrespecting any body

 

[katsuragi]

I agree with the majority of your post, and how the internet is an outlet for LGBTQA+ people to express themselves freely, however, in certain regards, fetishes are a part of peoples' sexual preferences, and may be ingrained in them, just like gender or sex preference is. Obviously I think that sexual orientation and fetishes are different, but what's to say that both of them can't be a part of someone's identity?

i must have worded that a bit misleadingly, they can definitely both be part of someone's identity! i just mean in regards to it being implied that sexuality is not a whole lot more than a fetish (for example; how lesbianism is constantly fetishised by cishet men). i hope that makes more sense, i'm terrible at justifying what i have to say.

 

[GameLaxer]

i must have worded that a bit misleadingly, they can definitely both be part of someone's identity! i just mean in regards to it being implied that sexuality is not a whole lot more than a fetish (for example; how lesbianism is constantly fetishised by cishet men). i hope that makes more sense, i'm terrible at justifying what i have to say.

Ah ok, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying

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Sorry if I've offended you, I was afraid people would be super touchy about what I was suggesting.

I would like to make it clear though, I don't consider it a privilege to be able to tell people I'm straight. I /don't/ tell people I'm straight, because people don't ask. I don't announce online that I'm straight, or cisgendered (I have NO idea what that means), or any thing. I don't let my sexuality define me, which was my original question.

And you're right, it's not often you don't hear people say they aren't straight. But there are a lot of not oftens that you hear from people, and they don't feel threatened by being in a minority.
And I've never said any thing about any body not being people. In fact, I was trying to say that no matter what the preference, every bodies a person. I was more so wrapped up in why it matters in the first place, and why your sexual preference is used to identify who you are.

Yeesh, I wasn't disrespecting any body

Don't worry. Almost anything anyone says in this world is going to offend someone else. You're just asking because you're curious and knowledge is power in my opinion, so I really respect you for talking about this, even though it's putting yourself out there and at least trying to understand something that you don't. A lot of people just hate, fear, or disregard the things that they don't understand, but you're taking the actions and asking the questions (so yes, I applaud you). Cisgendered means someone who identifies with the gender that they are (e.g. a girl identifies with being a girl, but could be a lesbian aka a girl who likes girl). Non-cisgendered means that someone doesn't identify with the gender that they are biologically, but this isn't to be confused with being transgendered--transgendered means someone is changing genders or is in fact mentally one gender and physically another. For example, someone who is non-cis can be a girl who identifies as a boy, but still likes girls and considers herself a lesbian. There is some overlap with transgendered and non-cis, though. (I think these are the correct terms) acis-gendered/agendered is someone who does not identify with either gender; however, their sexual preference could be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual--you name it...gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things.

 

[goodra]

Non-cisgendered means that someone doesn't identify with the gender that they are biologically, but this isn't to be confused with being transgendered--transgendered means someone is changing genders or is in fact mentally one gender and physically another. For example, someone who is non-cis can be a girl who identifies as a boy, but still likes girls and considers herself a lesbian. There is some overlap with transgendered and non-cis, though. (I think these are the correct terms) acis-gendered/agendered is someone who does not identify with either gender; however, their sexual preference could be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual--you name it...gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things.

i think i might be misreading your comment but, cis = not trans(gender/sexual, both things), which would be the overlap i think you're talking about

i don't think acis is a term (or at least i haven't seen it used), so if i have this right that would just be agender, which falls under the trans label

 

[GameLaxer]

i think i might be misreading your comment but, cis = not trans(gender/sexual, both things), which would be the overlap i think you're talking about

i don't think acis is a term (or at least i haven't seen it used), so if i have this right that would just be agender, which falls under the trans label

Right, cis = identifying with the gender you were biologically born as (e.g. not trans). and I think a-gendered is probably the term then...but trans falls under the non-cis label, not the other way around if I'm not mistaken...

 

[goodra]

but trans falls under the non-cis label, not the other way around if I'm not mistaken...

they're the same thing from what i've seen. i was referring to agender going under trans, not non-cis going under it

 

[Mephisto Pheles]

Ah ok, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying

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Don't worry. Almost anything anyone says in this world is going to offend someone else. You're just asking because you're curious and knowledge is power in my opinion, so I really respect you for talking about this, even though it's putting yourself out there and at least trying to understand something that you don't. A lot of people just hate, fear, or disregard the things that they don't understand, but you're taking the actions and asking the questions (so yes, I applaud you). Cisgendered means someone who identifies with the gender that they are (e.g. a girl identifies with being a girl, but could be a lesbian aka a girl who likes girl). Non-cisgendered means that someone doesn't identify with the gender that they are biologically, but this isn't to be confused with being transgendered--transgendered means someone is changing genders or is in fact mentally one gender and physically another. For example, someone who is non-cis can be a girl who identifies as a boy, but still likes girls and considers herself a lesbian. There is some overlap with transgendered and non-cis, though. (I think these are the correct terms) acis-gendered/agendered is someone who does not identify with either gender; however, their sexual preference could be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual--you name it...gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things.

To start; non-cis and trans are the same thing. However, trans is the proper term. Perhaps the word you were thinking of is non-binary?

Also, you shouldn't refer to someone as a "girl" if they identify as a "boy" (or vice versa). Instead, to indicate if someone was born physically female, you can use DFAB or FAAB (Designated Female at Birth / Female Assigned at Birth). Or trans+(their gender identity).

For example: I'm a trans man. My birth sex is female. That makes me DFAB/FAAB. It does not, however, make me a "girl who identifies as a boy". Additionally, trans men cannot be lesbians; because they are men. Lesbians are women, who are attracted to other women.

Terminology becomes difficult, however, if someones gender identity is non-binary, such as agender, bigender, etc.


Truth is, sexual terms like "homosexual", "heterosexual" and even "bisexual" were likely invented by cis people - without non-binary trans individuals in mind. So some may choose to use the label that reflects their sex, rather than their gender identity. (Example: a DFAB agender person identifying as "lesbian")

 

[GameLaxer]

To start; non-cis and trans are the same thing. However, trans is the proper term. Perhaps the word you were thinking of is non-binary?

Also, you shouldn't refer to someone as a "girl" if they identify as a "boy" (or vice versa). Instead, to indicate if someone was born physically female, you can use DFAB or FAAB (Designated Female at Birth / Female Assigned at Birth). Or trans+(their gender identity).

For example: I'm a trans man. My birth sex is female. That makes me DFAB/FAAB. It does not, however, make me a "girl who identifies as a boy". Additionally, trans men cannot be lesbians; because they are men. Lesbians are women, who are attracted to other women.

Terminology becomes difficult, however, if someones gender identity is non-binary, such as agender, bigender, etc.


Truth is, sexual terms like "homosexual", "heterosexual" and even "bisexual" were likely invented by cis people - without non-binary trans individuals in mind. So some may choose to use the label that reflects their sex, rather than their gender identity. (Example: a DFAB agender person identifying as "lesbian")

Ah, ok. Yes, that was what I meant to say...I just got a bit confused XD I went to a group about this (sexual vs. gender identity) in college, but i guess I got a little mixed up...I'm sorry for not using correct terminology...I would usually, but I was attempting to explain to him...sorry about that--thank you for the more accurate explanation ^_^ I learned something new, too! heh

 

[Mephisto Pheles]

Ah, ok. Yes, that was what I meant to say...I just got a bit confused XD I went to a group about this (sexual vs. gender identity) in college, but i guess I got a little mixed up...I'm sorry for not using correct terminology...I would usually, but I was attempting to explain to him...sorry about that--thank you for the more accurate explanation ^_^ I learned something new, too! heh

No problem. Even as a trans man, it took me awhile to learn all these terms, too. I mean, it's not like all trans people are born with this knowledge hahaha. (I'm sure there's plenty I still don't know, too)

 

[GameLaxer]

No problem. Even as a trans man, it took me awhile to learn all these terms, too. I mean, it's not like all trans people are born with this knowledge hahaha. (I'm sure there's plenty I still don't know, too)

Heh, yea. Thanks ^_^

 

[radical6]

To start; non-cis and trans are the same thing. However, trans is the proper term. Perhaps the word you were thinking of is non-binary?

Also, you shouldn't refer to someone as a "girl" if they identify as a "boy" (or vice versa). Instead, to indicate if someone was born physically female, you can use DFAB or FAAB (Designated Female at Birth / Female Assigned at Birth). Or trans+(their gender identity).

For example: I'm a trans man. My birth sex is female. That makes me DFAB/FAAB. It does not, however, make me a "girl who identifies as a boy". Additionally, trans men cannot be lesbians; because they are men. Lesbians are women, who are attracted to other women.

Terminology becomes difficult, however, if someones gender identity is non-binary, such as agender, bigender, etc.


Truth is, sexual terms like "homosexual", "heterosexual" and even "bisexual" were likely invented by cis people - without non-binary trans individuals in mind. So some may choose to use the label that reflects their sex, rather than their gender identity. (Example: a DFAB agender person identifying as "lesbian")

Sexualities can easily be changed to accept NB genders.
Homosexual can be attracted to the same gender, instead of "men who like men". Bisexual can mean attracted to two genders (so it's possible to like agender people and girls for example) without implying there's only two genders. As for straight, uh idk. I hear "another gender" used for heterosexuality.

But yes, you don't refer to people as their assigned gender. That's very rude, use their identity. Like Phelps said it's best to use terms such as DFAB/AFAB/CAFAB (which all mean the same thing - assigned female at birth. AFAB is assigned female at birth, and CAFAB is coercively assigned female at birth).

I avoid saying someone's sex is ____. I don't think that's the same as calling someone DFAB. It's a touchy area, just don't go snooping around in people's assigned genders I guess. I'm pretty sure people would be offended if you said their biological sex was ____. Like if you told a trans woman that she's not really a woman since her biological sex is male, then you can bet that she would be really upset. Just don't tell people that or refer to their "biological" sex. That is rude and reminds them daily that they will never be cis.

 

[GameLaxer]

Sexualities can easily be changed to accept NB genders.
Homosexual can be attracted to the same gender, instead of "men who like men". Bisexual can mean attracted to two genders (so it's possible to like agender people and girls for example) without implying there's only two genders. As for straight, uh idk. I hear "another gender" used for heterosexuality.

But yes, you don't refer to people as their assigned gender. That's very rude, use their identity. Like Phelps said it's best to use terms such as DFAB/AFAB/CAFAB (which all mean the same thing - assigned female at birth. AFAB is assigned female at birth, and CAFAB is coercively assigned female at birth).

I avoid saying someone's sex is ____. I don't think that's the same as calling someone DFAB. It's a touchy area, just don't go snooping around in people's assigned genders I guess. I'm pretty sure people would be offended if you said their biological sex was ____. Like if you told a trans woman that she's not really a woman since her biological sex is male, then you can bet that she would be really upset. Just don't tell people that or refer to their "biological" sex. That is rude and reminds them daily that they will never be cis.

Meep. I'm sorry if I offended anyone--I was just trying to explain things, but wasn't very good at it :/ Thanks for taking the reins, though.

 

[radical6]

Meep. I'm sorry if I offended anyone--I was just trying to explain things, but wasn't very good at it :/ Thanks for taking the reins, though.

It's fine, people make mistakes. I'm sure it wasn't your intention anyway.

 

[Mephisto Pheles]

Sexualities can easily be changed to accept NB genders.
Homosexual can be attracted to the same gender, instead of "men who like men". Bisexual can mean attracted to two genders (so it's possible to like agender people and girls for example) without implying there's only two genders. As for straight, uh idk. I hear "another gender" used for heterosexuality.

But yes, you don't refer to people as their assigned gender. That's very rude, use their identity. Like Phelps said it's best to use terms such as DFAB/AFAB/CAFAB (which all mean the same thing - assigned female at birth. AFAB is assigned female at birth, and CAFAB is coercively assigned female at birth).

I avoid saying someone's sex is ____. I don't think that's the same as calling someone DFAB. It's a touchy area, just don't go snooping around in people's assigned genders I guess. I'm pretty sure people would be offended if you said their biological sex was ____. Like if you told a trans woman that she's not really a woman since her biological sex is male, then you can bet that she would be really upset. Just don't tell people that or refer to their "biological" sex. That is rude and reminds them daily that they will never be cis.

Ah, yeah, you're right.. Homo can simply mean "same", bi as "two" and hetero as "other". I suppose I didn't consider that because the word "lesbian" threw me off - which seems to be exclusive to women who are attracted to women.

And you have a point.. I knew that terms like DFAB are also used by people born intersex, but raised female - and thus is used to refer to gender rather than sex. Don't know why I forgot that when I wrote that reply.

I can see how pointing out someones sex can be triggering, too, so I don't personally bring up another persons birth sex - only my own if I feel comfortable and it's relevant to the topic being discussed.

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But see there, Laxer? I told you being trans doesn't make me incapable of being wrong on trans terms. There's your proof haha

 

[GameLaxer]

It's fine, people make mistakes. I'm sure it wasn't your intention anyway.

Thanks. And no, not at all my intent. In fact, I learned something new tonight, so thank you

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Ah, yeah, you're right.. Homo can simply mean "same", bi as "two" and hetero as "other". I suppose I didn't consider that because the word "lesbian" threw me off - which seems to be exclusive to women who are attracted to women.

And you have a point.. I knew that terms like DFAB are also used by people born intersex, but raised female - and thus is used to refer to gender rather than sex. Don't know why I forgot that when I wrote that reply.

I can see how pointing out someones sex can be triggering, too, so I don't personally bring up another persons birth sex - only my own if I feel comfortable and it's relevant to the topic being discussed.

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But see there, Laxer? I told you being trans doesn't make me incapable of being wrong on trans terms. There's your proof haha

Well, thank you--you helped educate me tonight ^_^ I appreciate it!