LGBTQA - Discussion and support.

[Clara Oswald]

I don't think you quite understand the religious part. It's pretty easy to blame religion when you don't understand it. The bible says homosexuality is a sin, just like a lot of other stuff. Simple as that. If someone is a christian, they have very right to not believe in adultery, lying, cheating, or being gay. That's not the same as hating gay people. The bible doesn't teach anyone to hate others. Period. I'm not religious, but I was raised in the church. I've literally never met another christian that hated gay people. Do they exist? Sure. But there are haters in every demographic you could possible name.

I'm not trying to single you out, but comments like that irritate me. You don't defeat ignorance with ignorance. People have a right to believe what they want to believe. That's different than people hating others. Haters, no matter who they are or who they're hating on, should be shamed.

Just my two cents. I considered not coming anywhere near this thread since emotions tend to run so high with things like this. My opinion on the whole thing? I just don't care. Gay, straight, any other combo....I so don't care. Be happy and do what you want. I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve and I don't like it when others do.

To do with you saying the bible says that homosexuality is a sin. There is a paragraph in the bible that can be interpreted in many ways (I know their are many but this one in particular). I believe it says something like a man should not sleep with another man in a married bed (or something, that's just a vague memory, I don't even know if it's the right bit). As you can see that can be interpreted as saying being gay is wrong but it can also be interpreted as cheating on someone is wrong. It can even mean you should not sleep with another person in the bed you and your married partner share. So basically it all comes down to how you read it. The bible does not say homosexuality is a sin, for some it just implies it.

 

[Lady Timpani]

Why does this thread always devolve into religious debates

 

[rockthemike13]

Why does this thread always devolve into religious debates

Because people keep saying- HOMOSEXUALITY IS SUPPRESSED THANKS TO THAT STUPID RELIGION!

And there are people who may believe in said religion and feel the need to speak out against that kind of talk.

 

[Lady Timpani]

Because people keep saying- HOMOSEXUALITY IS SUPPRESSED THANKS TO THAT STUPID RELIGION!

And there are people who may believe in said religion and feel the need to speak out against that kind of talk.

I understand that, but I think a lot of people (at least, I would) would prefer that you guys use another venue to do so. Things got really nasty the last time that happened.

 

[radical6]

I don't want this thread to get locked a 2nd time, lol. I'm not religious but I don't hate religious people. Like yeah, a lot of their followers can be homophobic/transphobic/etc. But I come across a lot of rude atheists so tbh I don't think all of homophobia/transphobia is rooted in religion. Honestly I hate talking about religion in general since I hate a lot of religious people and a lot of atheists, so I'm just neutral in the whole argument.

 

[MayorOrpheus]

I understand that, but I think a lot of people (at least, I would) would prefer that you guys use another venue to do so. Things got really nasty the last time that happened.

I don't see things getting nasty. Someone made an ignorant comment about religion, I pointed it out. I'm not even religious. I'm also not against gay, bi, hetero, or any other people. I'm against being intellectually dishonest. There's a lot of people and positions I disagree with, but I don't purposefully misrepresent them to fit my needs. Saying all republicans are knuckle dragging woman hating neanderthals isn't ok just because I'm a democrat. Likewise, saying all democrats are a bunch of tree hugging dirty hippies is dishonest. If you really want to stand up for your cause, don't misrepresent the other side. The thing that irritated me just happened to be about religion. Could have been anything. No one freak out. Carry on. Nothing to see here. These are definitely not the the droids you're looking for.

 

[Lady Timpani]

I don't see things getting nasty. Someone made an ignorant comment about religion, I pointed it out. I'm not even religious. I'm also not against gay, bi, hetero, or any other people. I'm against being intellectually dishonest. There's a lot of people and positions I disagree with, but I don't purposefully misrepresent them to fit my needs. Saying all republicans are knuckle dragging woman hating neanderthals isn't ok just because I'm a democrat. Likewise, saying all democrats are a bunch of tree hugging dirty hippies is dishonest. If you really want to stand up for your cause, don't misrepresent the other side. The thing that irritated me just happened to be about religion. Could have been anything. No one freak out. Carry on. Nothing to see here. These are definitely not the the droids you're looking for.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Honestly, I didn't even read the post that started this all or even the conversation that it was a part of, so I can't really say anything on that front. My main worry wasn't even you or rockthemike but other people, since I've seen things like this escalate into much worse when others outside of the original conversation get involved.

 

[Le Ham]

Aw, crap, now I'm scared to even post my side of anything because I'm Christian. Guess I'll just get out before the hate arises. But I will say that I don't see why being allowed to do things is wrong on non-Godly terms (since I don't think most gays and other sexual orientations would believe in a heaven or hell, I could be wrong); however, forcing people to do something against their religion, isn't that wrong too, regardless of whether other people believe it? So I guess the problem goes both ways, or am I immoral and insensitive for saying that?

 

[Mephisto Pheles]

Aw, crap, now I'm scared to even post my side of anything because I'm Christian. Guess I'll just get out before the hate arises. But I will say that I don't see why being allowed to do things is wrong on non-Godly terms (since I don't think most gays and other sexual orientations would believe in a heaven or hell, I could be wrong); however, forcing people to do something against their religion, isn't that wrong too, regardless of whether other people believe it? So I guess the problem goes both ways, or am I immoral and insensitive for saying that?

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Forcing someone to do what against their religion..? (Do you mean support same sex marriage? Or something else?)

EDIT: Just read the previous page about the "Political Lesbianism" thing.. and my first thought was "lol what??". :|

Neither sexual nor romantic orientation are choices, so.. women who swear off men and only date women are probably bi, at the least.

Also, how does that help fight sexism at all?? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.. But I'm pretty sure refusing to date a guy doesn't magically make him stop being sexist.


Honestly, I don't think even the women who claim to be "politically lesbian" actually mean it... They're probably just saying that out of spite. (if they do mean it, though... I'd really like to know why they think that will help anything, and why they seem to think they can choose to be lesbian)

 

[Hana-Nezumi]

Um, people, I was not blaming homophobia on Christianity itself, or on all Christians, but on people who use religion as an excuse to hate and discriminate, because THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION of the religion convinces them is is the right thing to do. Don't take my words out of context.

I like how everyone also just assumed I was talking about Christians when I didn't name a specific religion, as I also had Muslims in mind.

 

[GameLaxer]

Honestly, I think that anyone, whether religious or not, can be homophobic. It is just part of general culture, though homosexuality and/or general sexual fluidity have been around for thousands of years. Some of the cultural abhorrence comes from a purely anthropological background...for instance, a culture may have believed homosexuality, especially in men, to cause sanitation/health issues, or a same-sex couple would prevent the procreation of their culture and in more primitive times, that would mean fewer hands to work fields, etc. or continue the legacy of the culture or family name (especially with regards to sons). Some of these cultural beliefs were integrated into religion as well, and religion is also a cultural belief, as is atheism. However, the vast majority of history has been dominated by religion, and as a result, the propagation of the human species and, by extension, more religious followers/believers, was necessary. With gay couples, that would prevent such growth in power and influence of religion. Anyway, in almost all extremely conservative branches of religion, homosexuality is abhorred because of precisely this reason (though it is merely stated by most that it is quoted from the Bible). Religion isn't the only cause of homophobia, and I just wanted to point that out as well--there are definitely many other factors, because atheists also can be homophobic, etc.

 

[Hana-Nezumi]

I need to respond to the comment that was directed at me and started this whole thing.

I don't think you quite understand the religious part. It's pretty easy to blame religion when you don't understand it. The bible says homosexuality is a sin, just like a lot of other stuff. Simple as that. If someone is a christian, they have very right to not believe in adultery, lying, cheating, or being gay. That's not the same as hating gay people. The bible doesn't teach anyone to hate others. Period. I'm not religious, but I was raised in the church. I've literally never met another christian that hated gay people. Do they exist? Sure. But there are haters in every demographic you could possible name.

I'm not trying to single you out, but comments like that irritate me. You don't defeat ignorance with ignorance. People have a right to believe what they want to believe. That's different than people hating others. Haters, no matter who they are or who they're hating on, should be shamed.

I'm offended that you think I "don't understand" and that I'm fighting "ignorance with ignorance". You took my comment completely out of context, creating a strawman (which everyone else then hopped on) I was not attacking religion (and I did not single out Christianity either) I did NOT say that all Christians hate gay people or that religion itself is inherently bad. I was just saying that most people who are homophobic are so because THEY believe that is what their religion tells them (whether it is what the religion actually says or not)

 

[Lady Timpani]

Hana-Nezumi, I'm not sure if you think I was attacking you or not, but either way, I want to apologize. I was simply trying to defuse the tension in the thread by talking to the others involved in the conversation. I hadn't actually read the original conversation or even your post, but if I said anything that made you feel like I was singling you out, I'm sorry.

 

[Hana-Nezumi]

Hana-Nezumi, I'm not sure if you think I was attacking you or not, but either way, I want to apologize. I was simply trying to defuse the tension in the thread by talking to the others involved in the conversation. I hadn't actually read the original conversation or even your post, but if I said anything that made you feel like I was singling you out, I'm sorry.

You were completely fine. But thank you.

It's just that one person took my post out of context and then others jumped in and got defensive for no reason and felt like they had to be all "not all Christians are like that!" when nobody had said anything of the sort.

 

[Clara Oswald]

You were completely fine. But thank you.

It's just that one person took my post out of context and then others jumped in and got defensive for no reason and felt like they had to be all "not all Christians are like that!" when nobody had said anything of the sort.

I hope you don't think I was attacking you because I did mean to at all, if I did I'm very sorry. I just wanted to clarify that the bible does not directly say homosexuality is a sin. Sorry.

 

[Hana-Nezumi]

I hope you don't think I was attacking you because I did mean to at all, if I did I'm very sorry. I just wanted to clarify that the bible does not directly say homosexuality is a sin. Sorry.

I didn't think you were attacking me and your comment was one that I agree with and actually was in line with what I was trying to say in the first place. But thank you.

I realize most of the posts were addressing no one in particular, it's just that the thread took a turn in a direction it didn't need to go in because of a misinterpretion of something I said, which made me annoyed but it wasn't really anyone's fault. Just a misunderstanding.

The thing that made me feel attacked was the person who was telling me that comments like mine are irritating, I'm fighting ignorance with ignorance, and that I don't understand religion.

 

[MayorOrpheus]

I need to respond to the comment that was directed at me and started this whole thing.


I'm offended that you think I "don't understand" and that I'm fighting "ignorance with ignorance". You took my comment completely out of context, creating a strawman (which everyone else then hopped on) I was not attacking religion (and I did not single out Christianity either) I did NOT say that all Christians hate gay people or that religion itself is inherently bad. I was just saying that most people who are homophobic are so because THEY believe that is what their religion tells them (whether it is what the religion actually says or not)

You want an apology? You made an ignorant statement. Try not to be so easily offended. Believe it or not, people are allowed to disagree with things you say. You disagree with me. You don't see me whining abou it.

 

[Hana-Nezumi]

You want an apology? You made an ignorant statement. Try not to be so easily offended. Believe it or not, people are allowed to disagree with things you say. You disagree with me. You don't see me whining abou it.

I didn't make an ignorant statement. You took what I said out of context. I was answering ThomasNLD's questions about why a message about LGBT+ equality is needed and why there are people who don't treat LGBT+ people as equals to begin with. So I said that the reason many people are hard to convince that homophobia is wrong is because of what they believe their religion says. That is a true statement. I made no sweeping statements about Christianity in general or claims that all Christians are homophobes. And I was not even talking specifically about Christians, but anyone who uses religion as an excuse for hatred as there are also Muslims who do the same thing.

I wasn't offended because you disagreed with me, but because you accused me of not understanding religion, called my comment irritating, and implied that I was being ignorant. Those are not disagreements, but completely unnecessary personal attacks. And you put words in my mouth starting a religious debate in this thread when there didn't even need to be one.

 

[Zeiro]

im very tired at this point of ignoring my chest but i really really want a binder. no one irl will buy it for me even if i offer them more than enough money. at this point im tempted to ask a teacher or my therapist but i feel like they wouldnt listen or care...i enter some giveaways for binders online but i never win. my transactions are connected to my mom so she sees everything i buy so i have no hope of buying it myself. aaaaaaaaaah im going to die

you could ask a school counselor or close teacher?? i'm sure they would understand. if not, are there any other adults that you're close with?

 

[Hoxaxon]

I'm straight, although I know many gays.