Oh?
Mafia TBT Mafia: Renaissance - Game Thread [ENDGAME - Town Wins]
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you townlocked her a few posts ago, though.
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in all honesty, punchy's decisions seem all over the place. however, if shawo doesn't appear until end of day then i'll probably place my vote on them.
Damniel
Openly Wolfing
while i think punchy is not giving out fully flesh thoughts, I don't think he's scum quite yet since it feels he's just behaving this way naturally (this is part of his meta for those who don't know him). even without meta he's being too careless to be scum imo
by roles you mean like masons?
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by roles you mean like masons?
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Yeah, something like masons. I highly doubt they're both scum.
the last game i played punchy locked me as town on day 1 so it's not unusual for him to say it. while this made me rly wary last game i didn't think too much of it afterward since i had been playing pretty regularly as both mafia and town but this game it's just rly weird to say something like that with certainty, u can't 'town lock' someone and one post letter change ur mind, town locks don't work that way, idk how u can have that much confidence in one post unless ur aware of something. anyway i don't rly have much thoughts atm bc it's 7am (lol) i'll be back on tmrw hopefully w some reads since ik i haven't rly commented on anyone beside a couple
**as in i had been actively playing, i feel like when someone hasn't played for years u can't rly townlock them based on how they used to play, idk if that makes sense i'm tired lol
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**as in i had been actively playing, i feel like when someone hasn't played for years u can't rly townlock them based on how they used to play, idk if that makes sense i'm tired lol
Geoni
You're doing great!
Alright I am entering the quiet hours at work and have read the entire thread and taken notes and I'm gonna run through one thing and then take it person by person I think.
The role PM wording thing began with Trundle saying the incorrect wording for the win condition and Dan pointing that out so honestly the one who emerges the best from this is Dan. That being said ever since this Trundle has become a bit all over the place. I'm not sure Jacob's part in this conversation is as AI as I initially felt though, he was talking more to Dan. It really just comes to a close with Trundle's defenses in #36 and #46 which...felt good to me?
Trundle
Trundle very much did not show good wording in a way I would expect a towny to, then that conversation happened, and then he had to defend himself in #36 and #46
This doesn't necessarily absolve him entirely but the thought process behind why he didn't have the right wording feels somewhat careless and I don't think that's scummy. I'm not entirely sold on a townread but I feel like it's less common to be so careless as scum. That being said he's moving on to nothing but overdefense for the most part after his reads list I have already gone over. I want to see his updated reads since he is a lynch candidate.
My least favorite moment is him being nervous about his own perception in #55 as others have pointed out and I think he's showing that he feels pressured. I need to see past mafia games to see if he gets this way as scum.
It's incredibly gut despite the high amount of content but I want to just lean a bit towards town with Trundle. His back and forth about wanting content but soon after revoking that statement and worrying about information overload seems to reach a point of meandering.
Trundle is killing me right now but another thing is that I just don't like the vibes I get from certain players throwing sus at him. It's an informational lynch at this point and those always feel like I failed a bit. I see that writing on the wall.
Tae
With Trundle out of the way I want to cover tae because a fair bit from the feels pingy. If Trundle isn't town then I'll have to reconsider this a little but a lot of red flags here and some (glow iirc) have already pointed them out. The first read of substance is somewhat wishy-washy on Trundle but ultimately there's a little suspicion tae has established that feels like it could be revisited as a way to sheep a Trundle lynch while also coming off as uncertain. Like... it's on and off with me too about Trundle so to an extent I understand but these posts themselves throw me off:
Kind of a jokey excuse
Because no posters don't look as questionable as someone who has been around through the game so far taking a very long time to establish a read before there seems to be a candidate. And so this comes off a little deflective when it wasn't necessary.
This is the post I was referencing above the spoiler about being wishy-washy yet positioned. You briefly state that he's sus for pocketing you but you don't go into it. And you then put yourself in his shoes to paint his behavior as understandable without saying you think it's coming from a towny place. It just pings me a bit.
I like the stance on focusing on 3rd party later and tae isn't wrong about Trundle lacking substance. Meanders a bit on the subject but eh, this feels wishy-washy but less pointed. If tae does turn out to be scum it's potentially filler but it's one of tae's more agreeable moments.
Not scum with Locket. Jumping at Locket's throat a little about something pretty silly from her. Not entirely sold on Locket yet because it's an odd first moment of content to ponder if someone is a PR rather than scumhunt so it could go either way but in a taescum world this is townspew on Locket?
Not teamed with Shawo and I don't care for Shawo anymore so there's that. Of course I don't care for your take on me, it stokes paranoia about a person that people have stated they struggle to trust while not making reads -about said reads- and instead just being all 'too many reads so soon'.
It's because you had been giving no substantial input at that time and I was concerned your nervousness about putting reads out there came from a place of not wanting to make solving easier for town down the road by looking back at your early reads and solving more with it should you flip scum.
Like... I'm trying not to tunnel here so if this is just how tae plays point that out to me but tae has just pinged me so much. Again, not being teamed with shawo is a plus but like... there's a lot of takes (considering timing) that don't come from a towny place so readily.
PandaDarling
Just a quick note on her really but she's also jumping in once Trundle has heat with a... wording slip? It's a unique take on someone lynchable and that's always a scumping for me.
Skarmoury
Something about this doesn't sit right, I felt more towny in an initial read of skar but I don't care for this interjection. I feel like a lot with skarmoury is less substantial than their newbie counterparts (Harbour, Emolga, DinoTown). I'm not scum reading here but I am not as partial to townleaning as I initially was. A lot of talk about the way the game is rather than the content and I want some display of solving at some point.
Heyden
I'm starting to get tired but Heyden still isn't sitting right with me. Another one who doesn't necessarily fit in a shawo team but as I move more towards a Punchy townlean the moments from Heyden is not sitting with me as well and it's still a bit early but I want more breadth of solving.
Shawo
What has he really done other than kinda say he's not contributing much day 1 and just watching it develop from the sidelines? His reactions to the early day silliness felt towny but lack of content never makes me feel good about someone.
Shaebae
I think shaebae has been liking people's posts while not having too many themselves so I want more from them as well.
I'll explain the rest that I'm feeling more towny about in a bit but making big posts is exhausting on mobile so don't expect it right away. To preview further reads I'll say that AmazonEvan, Dan, and Punchy are feeling the most towny and tae, Panda, shawo, and Heyden are not really giving me town yet and I need to ISO Jacob. Oath feels like he's clarifying the way certain people like Trundle are and being a voice of reason about setup specifics Heyden brought up and glow is pointing out some things I find agreeable as wary as I am to throw a stronger townread at her... now's not the time for it. Dino and Harbour and Emolga I'll need to revisit. Trundle is...ugh. Town or scum that's great at acting.
17+ player games are a bit more time consuming for my style, can't case everyone yet, but it's w/e. Need to start forming wagons though.
The role PM wording thing began with Trundle saying the incorrect wording for the win condition and Dan pointing that out so honestly the one who emerges the best from this is Dan. That being said ever since this Trundle has become a bit all over the place. I'm not sure Jacob's part in this conversation is as AI as I initially felt though, he was talking more to Dan. It really just comes to a close with Trundle's defenses in #36 and #46 which...felt good to me?
Trundle
Trundle very much did not show good wording in a way I would expect a towny to, then that conversation happened, and then he had to defend himself in #36 and #46
This doesn't necessarily absolve him entirely but the thought process behind why he didn't have the right wording feels somewhat careless and I don't think that's scummy. I'm not entirely sold on a townread but I feel like it's less common to be so careless as scum. That being said he's moving on to nothing but overdefense for the most part after his reads list I have already gone over. I want to see his updated reads since he is a lynch candidate.
My least favorite moment is him being nervous about his own perception in #55 as others have pointed out and I think he's showing that he feels pressured. I need to see past mafia games to see if he gets this way as scum.
It's incredibly gut despite the high amount of content but I want to just lean a bit towards town with Trundle. His back and forth about wanting content but soon after revoking that statement and worrying about information overload seems to reach a point of meandering.
Trundle is killing me right now but another thing is that I just don't like the vibes I get from certain players throwing sus at him. It's an informational lynch at this point and those always feel like I failed a bit. I see that writing on the wall.
Tae
With Trundle out of the way I want to cover tae because a fair bit from the feels pingy. If Trundle isn't town then I'll have to reconsider this a little but a lot of red flags here and some (glow iirc) have already pointed them out. The first read of substance is somewhat wishy-washy on Trundle but ultimately there's a little suspicion tae has established that feels like it could be revisited as a way to sheep a Trundle lynch while also coming off as uncertain. Like... it's on and off with me too about Trundle so to an extent I understand but these posts themselves throw me off:
Kind of a jokey excuse
Because no posters don't look as questionable as someone who has been around through the game so far taking a very long time to establish a read before there seems to be a candidate. And so this comes off a little deflective when it wasn't necessary.
This is the post I was referencing above the spoiler about being wishy-washy yet positioned. You briefly state that he's sus for pocketing you but you don't go into it. And you then put yourself in his shoes to paint his behavior as understandable without saying you think it's coming from a towny place. It just pings me a bit.
I like the stance on focusing on 3rd party later and tae isn't wrong about Trundle lacking substance. Meanders a bit on the subject but eh, this feels wishy-washy but less pointed. If tae does turn out to be scum it's potentially filler but it's one of tae's more agreeable moments.
Not scum with Locket. Jumping at Locket's throat a little about something pretty silly from her. Not entirely sold on Locket yet because it's an odd first moment of content to ponder if someone is a PR rather than scumhunt so it could go either way but in a taescum world this is townspew on Locket?
Not teamed with Shawo and I don't care for Shawo anymore so there's that. Of course I don't care for your take on me, it stokes paranoia about a person that people have stated they struggle to trust while not making reads -about said reads- and instead just being all 'too many reads so soon'.
It's because you had been giving no substantial input at that time and I was concerned your nervousness about putting reads out there came from a place of not wanting to make solving easier for town down the road by looking back at your early reads and solving more with it should you flip scum.
Like... I'm trying not to tunnel here so if this is just how tae plays point that out to me but tae has just pinged me so much. Again, not being teamed with shawo is a plus but like... there's a lot of takes (considering timing) that don't come from a towny place so readily.
PandaDarling
Just a quick note on her really but she's also jumping in once Trundle has heat with a... wording slip? It's a unique take on someone lynchable and that's always a scumping for me.
Skarmoury
Something about this doesn't sit right, I felt more towny in an initial read of skar but I don't care for this interjection. I feel like a lot with skarmoury is less substantial than their newbie counterparts (Harbour, Emolga, DinoTown). I'm not scum reading here but I am not as partial to townleaning as I initially was. A lot of talk about the way the game is rather than the content and I want some display of solving at some point.
Heyden
I'm starting to get tired but Heyden still isn't sitting right with me. Another one who doesn't necessarily fit in a shawo team but as I move more towards a Punchy townlean the moments from Heyden is not sitting with me as well and it's still a bit early but I want more breadth of solving.
Shawo
What has he really done other than kinda say he's not contributing much day 1 and just watching it develop from the sidelines? His reactions to the early day silliness felt towny but lack of content never makes me feel good about someone.
Shaebae
I think shaebae has been liking people's posts while not having too many themselves so I want more from them as well.
I'll explain the rest that I'm feeling more towny about in a bit but making big posts is exhausting on mobile so don't expect it right away. To preview further reads I'll say that AmazonEvan, Dan, and Punchy are feeling the most towny and tae, Panda, shawo, and Heyden are not really giving me town yet and I need to ISO Jacob. Oath feels like he's clarifying the way certain people like Trundle are and being a voice of reason about setup specifics Heyden brought up and glow is pointing out some things I find agreeable as wary as I am to throw a stronger townread at her... now's not the time for it. Dino and Harbour and Emolga I'll need to revisit. Trundle is...ugh. Town or scum that's great at acting.
17+ player games are a bit more time consuming for my style, can't case everyone yet, but it's w/e. Need to start forming wagons though.
DinoTown
Festive Fossil
Good morning people, I have read everything I missed.
I'm feeling a little more worried about Trundle after the 'I am not a smart man.' post, however, I'm not sure if that's just me struggling to wrap my head around how someone can just... not read their entire role PM.
I don't wanna turn around and be all 'oh yeah Trundle is def scum' if the response I'm supposed to be having is 'wow yeah that wasn't smart'.
I'm feeling a little more worried about Trundle after the 'I am not a smart man.' post, however, I'm not sure if that's just me struggling to wrap my head around how someone can just... not read their entire role PM.
I don't wanna turn around and be all 'oh yeah Trundle is def scum' if the response I'm supposed to be having is 'wow yeah that wasn't smart'.
Geoni
You're doing great!
Tfw I am trying to ISO Jacob and finding myself leaning back towards Trundlescum for this readslist alone.
That interjection was the second ever post I made here, after the RQS. Since this is my first game here, I realized my experiences were very different so I asked it to be sure so I could keep up.
As for less substantial, not sure what more substance or solving you're looking for? I tried to give insights about stuff I was skeptical about.
Geoni
You're doing great!
I keep forgetting about f11 and rereading Jacob, not scum leaning him as much as I did before, I'm not really giving the pass despite the explanation that it wasn't joking.
There's a depth to this I wasn't expecting and for the time in the thread it happened it seemed like acceptable criticism but this is just about the only explained read from Crys, nothing since, aside from a popin doubting the scum team is 3 new players. Keeping my eyes on f11's updated reads.
QUOTE="Jacob, post: 8599732, member: 88869"]
To clarify, when Dan and Trundle we're arguing what the "town wincon" was, I first reread the OP and found what Aiden was referring to, then I checked my own PM to see where Daniel was getting his argument (which he later quoted was actually from the OP as well. The op just said 2 different things at different places). I then said "Dan v Trundle is Town v Town" in reference to their interaction being something two town would be having, rather than "oh Dan might've caught scum." Maybe i should've said "this is overkill and non indicative."
I do think you should maybe read back tho because I kinda don't like how the ball was rolling and Aiden jumped along on you scum leaning me after misreading one of my posts which I didn't intend to be ambiguous. I think that's also why Heyden was pushing back on you scum reading me.
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Can you clarify what your read on Heyden is here? As well as an overall read on Heyden, really.
Also you mentioned a scumpool so I'm curious as to what it is for you.
F
I hate pressing where you want to type on mobile.
There's a depth to this I wasn't expecting and for the time in the thread it happened it seemed like acceptable criticism but this is just about the only explained read from Crys, nothing since, aside from a popin doubting the scum team is 3 new players. Keeping my eyes on f11's updated reads.
QUOTE="Jacob, post: 8599732, member: 88869"]
To clarify, when Dan and Trundle we're arguing what the "town wincon" was, I first reread the OP and found what Aiden was referring to, then I checked my own PM to see where Daniel was getting his argument (which he later quoted was actually from the OP as well. The op just said 2 different things at different places). I then said "Dan v Trundle is Town v Town" in reference to their interaction being something two town would be having, rather than "oh Dan might've caught scum." Maybe i should've said "this is overkill and non indicative."
I do think you should maybe read back tho because I kinda don't like how the ball was rolling and Aiden jumped along on you scum leaning me after misreading one of my posts which I didn't intend to be ambiguous. I think that's also why Heyden was pushing back on you scum reading me.
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Can you clarify what your read on Heyden is here? As well as an overall read on Heyden, really.
Also you mentioned a scumpool so I'm curious as to what it is for you.
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F
I hate pressing where you want to type on mobile.
Personally this is a weird thing to say as a townie? I get being all defensive but honestly with how much you've been trying to explain, it's putting a lot of attention on you. This sounds like "You may think I'm a mafia but I swear I'm not." Little sus.
If you knew you were playing bad (and on post #255, "You see, I am not a smart man.") and people tried to tell you your faults like overexplaining, why continue with the behavior? I'm starting to believe you'rd digging a hole for yourself, not sure if on purpose or by accident. A bit skeptical nonetheless. Idk if there are TPs in this game but I'd reckon that if you were mafia, you'd do better at hiding, or if you were townie you'd at least make yourself a little less skeptical.
amazonevan19
DLELELEWOOOOP
I'm leery of Sheabae's wanting to get the ball rolling on shawo. It seems awfully convenient and piggybacking off of what a lot of people have already said about shawo.
It's also kinda weird given that shawo has not said anything in their defense yet really. I'm willing to give more time for them to respond or share anything that proves they're worth keeping around.
tbh I think the potential scum pairing we should be considering the most rn is Jacob and Trundle
To me, Trundle's "I am not a smart man" post also rubs me the wrong way, but almost everything he's doing is rubbing me the wrong way, so it's not really unique. For all I know Trundle could really just be folding under a lot of pressure here and is actually town, but rn I feel he is one of the safest scumleans, broadly speaking.
Sorry I didn't correctly refer to you earlier btw...
It's also kinda weird given that shawo has not said anything in their defense yet really. I'm willing to give more time for them to respond or share anything that proves they're worth keeping around.
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tbh I think the potential scum pairing we should be considering the most rn is Jacob and Trundle
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Hi Dino, you aren't really "supposed" to feel anything. Go with your gut instinct and try to logically deduce what's going on.
To me, Trundle's "I am not a smart man" post also rubs me the wrong way, but almost everything he's doing is rubbing me the wrong way, so it's not really unique. For all I know Trundle could really just be folding under a lot of pressure here and is actually town, but rn I feel he is one of the safest scumleans, broadly speaking.
Sorry I didn't correctly refer to you earlier btw...
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amazonevan19
DLELELEWOOOOP
Also I will just state for the record that while I trust Daniel for the time being, I do find it strange he just deadass agreed with my reads post and didn't seem to offer any level of disagreement or clarification on it. Contrast this with glow, who did state she agreed with a lot of what I said, but then snipped out a portion of my reads on Trundle and indicated disagreement with my Trundle read.
Not saying Daniel is remotely scum but this is an uncharacteristically lazy move on his part, imo
Not saying Daniel is remotely scum but this is an uncharacteristically lazy move on his part, imo
Geoni
You're doing great!
It's full-on Punchy town meta. Don't bite me in the rear and flip scum, Punchy.
amazonevan19
DLELELEWOOOOP
So do you think this also implicate Punchy? Or would he just be town and wrong on Mog here if this big brain theory is right
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and right as I post that, you answered my question already. Ninja'd
Geoni
You're doing great!
Honestly your reads posts and what developed after was enough for me to townread you strongly.
I think Dan is worldbuilding in a way that doesn't come off as orchestrated and I like his paranoia about me, feels healthy. Trundle vote shows commitment to solve. Came out of the win condition discussion looking the most towny by nature of being the first to be correct. Dude is solid town for me until further notice.
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I'm just looking at the readslist from Trundle I still hate, the flat out (initially) scumread of Mogyay and turned around immediately said it was a reaction test which is why I big brain see it as potential distancing theater but eh, just hyperfocused on that specific readslist I guess.
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I was wondering, but is Daniel usually confident from his meta? Kind of a bold move to vote Trundle first and immediately. Can't say much about Daniel since this is the first time I've seen everyone in action, but from the way Daniel deduces he seemed confident and really sure that the vote wasn't made in hesitation and he didn't need more input to change his mind.
Sorry, might clarify that the 'bold move' was voting first and immediately. I'm not surprised they'd suspect Trundle.
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Sorry, might clarify that the 'bold move' was voting first and immediately. I'm not surprised they'd suspect Trundle.
DinoTown
Festive Fossil
No worries, it's chill
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Going off of how people would vote in Madness, the first person to vote for anything other than 'abstain' is typically innocent, and usually confident they can convince the rest of the group as such. Either that or a jester-type role. A mafia normally knows that a bold move like that is going to draw attention to them that they can do without. I know Madness and Mafia aren't exactly the same game, but the logic behind it would still apply. So I have a strong townlean for Dan right now.
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