Mafia TBT Mafia: Renaissance - Game Thread [ENDGAME - Town Wins]

[Geoni]

@oath2order gimmi a scum pool or your townies so far pls

You've made helpful/sane clarifications on things that have popped up but idk where you stand reads-wise.

 

[skarmoury]

No worries, it's chill

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

Going off of how people would vote in Madness, the first person to vote for anything other than 'abstain' is typically innocent, and usually confident they can convince the rest of the group as such. Either that or a jester-type role. A mafia normally knows that a bold move like that is going to draw attention to them that they can do without. I know Madness and Mafia aren't exactly the same game, but the logic behind it would still apply. So I have a strong townlean for Dan right now.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking either Dan was convinced Trundle was mafia, or that Dan knows something about Trundle we don't. The first case looks to be the more probable one for me considering I find Trundle sus.

 

[Geoni]

tbh I think the potential scum pairing we should be considering the most rn is Jacob and Trundle

@amazonevan19

Looking at the Jacob ISO again, are you getting that from Jacob initially townreading Trundle but turning around and questioning me about just easily townreading Trundle when I entered the game as both distancing and TMI?

As far as from Trundle's side it's hard to know how willing he would have been to vote and wagon Jacob today after he echoed my initial suspicion of Jacob so it's at most distancing.

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

nope and they‘ve only really talked about editing posts lol seems like they are just posting filler lurking till we vote. Scum lean

Not a fan of this post because I've seen shawo play at least one game and he starts slow, not that I townread shawo at all, but with shawo having plenty of people express bad gut feelings about him it's an easy target for shaebae here.

It's one or two posts regarding shawo but I'm warming up to the idea that shaebae has scum equity.

 

[Heyden]

Apologies in advance, I have a lot to read up on but have an exam tomorrow, but I should finished and be here an hour before EoD lol.

Not gonna lie, right now I don’t really have a lean towards lynching anyone. Shawo/trundle seem to be under heat but I think those two are town, for me personally, Punchy or Sheabea idk.

 

[EpicGamer12]

I am awake, I will be posting the requested reads list.

I doubt I’m actually going to be lynched today, but if I am I recommend people who I consider to be strong town players like @glow, @amazonevan19, etc to make a reads list TODAY assuming that I have already flipped town. It’s very likely that if I am lynched, mafia will just take out at least 1 strong town player.

 

[Damniel]

i was waiting for geo to post more to figure out whether i thought he was scum, and i still do





geo's newest reads post in # 287 is actually really noncommittal when you really look into it. He states Trundle's odd behavior but ends it all in a "yea but idkkkkkk" conclusion. Trundle was one of his more developed reads but he ends it so ambiguously he seems like he doesn't want to take a hard stance and that will show during tonights final hours.





geo's next biggest read is on tae and he even has an ISO on them. The first half of the ISO posts are actually just things that other people and I have said before directly to tae, and the only unique posts they have on tae is about tae's interaction with locket and comment on shawo. I think these two posts are okay enough actually but they seem to be easy things to call out tae for tbh so i don't think he was being super investigative about it.





The rest of his reads posts is just him talking about people whose posts "don't sit right with him" (he actually says that a few times in the posts) and the lack of a strong stance he have to really any of those players just shows me that he's avoiding leading/joining a wagon just yet. while his first reads post felt super forced, this one feels weak and lacks conviction tbh

Right now my big brain pairing is Trundle and Mogyay

Note he didn't actually mention mog in his reads posts

Also I will just state for the record that while I trust Daniel for the time being, I do find it strange he just deadass agreed with my reads post and didn't seem to offer any level of disagreement or clarification on it. Contrast this with glow, who did state she agreed with a lot of what I said, but then snipped out a portion of my reads on Trundle and indicated disagreement with my Trundle read.





Not saying Daniel is remotely scum but this is an uncharacteristically lazy move on his part, imo

i didn’t disagree with any of your points, but i have much stronger feelings on geo and jacob than you do. i didn’t feel the need to question your post when i thought it was solid, you were town, and I was focused on trundle

Honestly your reads posts and what developed after was enough for me to townread you strongly.





I think Dan is worldbuilding in a way that doesn't come off as orchestrated and I like his paranoia about me, feels healthy. Trundle vote shows commitment to solve. Came out of the win condition discussion looking the most towny by nature of being the first to be correct. Dude is solid town for me until further notice.

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

I'm just looking at the readslist from Trundle I still hate, the flat out (initially) scumread of Mogyay and turned around immediately said it was a reaction test which is why I big brain see it as potential distancing theater but eh, just hyperfocused on that specific readslist I guess.

honestly it just feels like Geo’s pocketing me and sucking up to me more and more. but this makes sense since im being towered and of course maf would do that





I still think Trundle should be lynched, but Geo’s also a big sus of mine





my next sus is actually jacob. I don’t think the “Trundle v Dan is town v town” is actually that deep as people are taking it as. But look at his behavior, he’s gone into the shadows since he was initially called out. hes not even being inactive as he randomly showed up to talk about the setup of a speech-restricted TP which is something super easy to do as an experience player knows there’s def not one and punchys just being a weak player

I've seen some 3rd party roles in experimental games have roles that would be designed like this so maybe there's actually weight to this

Jacobs lack of actually contributing anything except from the beginning, and then largely disappearing is reallllyyyy sus to me

I doubt I’m actually going to be lynched today, but if I am I recommend people who I consider to be strong town players like @glow, @amazonevan19, etc to make a reads list TODAY assuming that I have already flipped town. It’s very likely that if I am lynched, mafia will just take out at least 1 strong town player.

l m a o

how do you think will/should be lynched then

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

i had this in a notes app sorry it formatted so weirdly lmao

also my biggest town reads (in that order) are evan, harbor, mog and punchy (i don't like their posts at all but i don't think they're actually maf). i'll work on my reads of the rest of the players but i don't feel too strongly about them quite yet

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

I was wondering, but is Daniel usually confident from his meta? Kind of a bold move to vote Trundle first and immediately. Can't say much about Daniel since this is the first time I've seen everyone in action, but from the way Daniel deduces he seemed confident and really sure that the vote wasn't made in hesitation and he didn't need more input to change his mind.

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

Sorry, might clarify that the 'bold move' was voting first and immediately. I'm not surprised they'd suspect Trundle.

i mean even without the vote, it think its clear that ive been very pro trundle lynch throughout the game and many players seem to also sus him. i could easily change my vote so i don't think my vote alone is really bold

 

[EpicGamer12]

Jacob
Jacob has been interesting in this game and I have him at a pretty strong mafia lean. Let's analyze his posts.
RQS

1. What's your experience? (How long have you played mafia/town of Salem/anything similar)
Been playing TBT maf since 2015, but I'm not sure the game count

2. What's your preferred alignment? Why?
3rd party assassin always <3 I like to not be on a team

3. Name 3 people for the scum team right now.
blindly clear that Mog, Punchy and Heyden are mafia. Heyden and punchy for the whole

4. Which player scares/concerns you the most?
I'm not scared of any players but im scared to disappoint crys

5. How do you react to pressure?
/avoid thread/ lol

6. (Optional) What're your pronouns?
He/collectible lord/him

I just want to point out a couple things here before we get deep into his posts.
1. His 3 people for scum at Mog, Punchy, and Heyden. I know this is random, but if he is mafia I believe he may have put one of his mafia buddies in this list. Either way just a guess at this point.
2. His reply to "How do you react to pressure?" is "/avoid thread/ lol". Well, what has Jacob more or less been doing ever since he came out at the beginning of the game to make a very quick claim that Daniel vs Trundle is Town vs Town?

In the following quotes, it's hard to tell exactly what he is thinking.

I honestly didn't see the

"Town Win Condition: Eliminate all threats to the town.
Mafia Win Condition: Equal or outnumber the town. "

in the op until after I posted, I just assumed you read off your role PM wincon. I think this is a very not alignment indicative back and forth tho because you're both referencing things that are on the OP.

View attachment 235342
no I said I thought DAN read his wincon off the pm which matched mine, which is why i TL'ed him. I just assumed aiden was town based on their back and forth, and the fact that I saw exactly where he pulled his idea of the town wincon straight off the OP, before I saw where dan did

In these posts he seems to be still of the opinion that Daniel and I are both town. He honestly was getting a small amount of heat for his bold, early claim, so he defends himself. When he comes back to the thread, he is asking Geoni why he is town leaning me.

I had to cut the quotes down because this new TBT format is super bulky and I would just get confused.
Geoni do you wanna explain why you townlean Trundle? Did I miss it? It looks like from the first quote you're hesitant about something, then you just TL him over Null reading him and didn't say anything about why

I think Jacob's post here is weird. If he thinks I'm town, why is he having a hard time believing Geoni also might think I'm town. Geoni's post was clear enough to me so it almost seems like Jacob is flipping here so he doesn't have to defend me for the rest of D1 if pressure starting getting mounted on me.

Jacob is pretty much low substance and /avoiding thread/ from there up until now IMO. He made posts, but there were really no hard reads or content. He has not posted a substantial reads list or sussed anyone like I would have expected after his original Trundle vs Daniel is Town vs Town post. This makes me think he was overly confident as mafia trying to pocket, then realized he may have made a mistake, and is now laying low to try to avoid attention on himself.

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

Just to elaborate, all of his posts since the one above where jokey posts or commenting on the game meta (such as quoting, or when mafia chat might have been opened, etc). Nothing really contributing to the game.

 

[DinoTown]

snip

If there were supposed to be a lot of quotes in that big message, just wanted to say it looks like half of them didn't show

 

[EpicGamer12]

Mog
While going through Jacob's posts, I noticed he has fixated on mog a lot. Even in his RQS he put her down as one of the three mafia. He also makes these posts in reference to mog:

inb4 mog is mafia like always

In mogs defense she didn't really use meta as her own defense so much as replying to me describing her "meta" in a non-accusing way. Again she's just very introspective

I'm getting a red flag from these. If Jacob thinks he knows mog so well, why doesn't he just make a read on her one way or another. There is no point analyzing someone's behaviour if you are not going to lend the analysis towards a read.

i don't think META reading someone as introspective as mog is a good d1 tactic. She leaves and enters every game thinking about her emotional responses and wording and everything, so she easily can be masking or intentionally rewording things to confuse ppl reading her meta

that's not true jacob, my meta is always consistent, i like it that way, i can't play as mafia, everyone knows that, since the first time i played as mafia i have not improved or changed my play style and that's a fact, it's stupid only playing this game in hope i don't roll mafia but that's how i play

Again, Jacob claims mog is "introspective". Whether or not he is right doesn't really matter right now. I can see this conversation as mafia x mafia due to how aware of each other they seem to be, although this could just be due to them being pretty good friends outside of mafia.

I'm also wary of people who are suspicious of me but don't want to commit to an actual read of me.

ik that's why i said my comment was dumb and why i'm sorry lmao, ik that meta can be important so i shouldn't have said that, i just don't think we should live and die by the meta, i more so said it so that the new players wouldn't be scared but i admit it was dumb now, sry

based on this game alone and none others i'd say he seems pretty scummy, i think his backtracking seems more self serving than for the benefit of us, i think if he was town he shouldn't necessarily have to be so apologetic since i don't think anything from what he's said has been that destructive despite what him saying it has. i also don't like the whole pm thing, super weird, the first thing u notice is the wording so i dno. in saying that tho it's like not like 'omg let's lynch him now' kinda stance lol, just a bit weird

It's very wishy washy and while I don't think the entire mafia team is trying to push a lynch on me, I am sure there is 1-2 that would be trying to push it in my direction and 1-2 that are trying to defend me so to save their own asses.
If anyone goes through and isolates mog's post, you may notice, like Jacob, she is not making many concrete reads. It's mostly just filler. I for one am advocating a Jacob lynch today.

 

[Damniel]

If there were supposed to be a lot of quotes in that big message, just wanted to say it looks like half of them didn't show

they weren’t quotes they were spaces in my notes app which i guess expanded

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

part of me is okay with lynching jacob and my heart and mind knows that trundle should not be allowed to get away with being lynch and def should not be leading a wagon

 

[EpicGamer12]

Aside from these two here is some more reads:

1. Damniel - I think Daniel is town. As I mentioned in my original reads list, Daniel pushing someone this hard D1 has been his town style, as damn annoying as I am find it.
2. Trundle -
3. Jacob - See above
4. Emolga59 - I am null on Emolga, although if my Jacob/Mog theory holds up I think they would be a good contender for a mafia lean. I think I will be able to read them better D2 and past but their only suspicion seems to be on me and it wasn't really much of a unique idea... These two posts below were within 6 hours of each other. I can see a newbie town doing this, so it's hard to say right now.

Okie Ty! Just out of curiosity what exactly did you find suspicious of Trundle?

Yeah but I don't have any firm suspicions yet but I'm starting to get suspicious of Trundle @PandaDarling

5. DinoTown - Seems to be keeping very good tabs on the game but hasn't really contributed much yet. I would really like a reads list. Overall, I think the eagerness to ask questions regularly put DinoTown as town lean for me. If they were mafia, they would just ask their QT chat about this stuff.
6. f11 - Nothing that f11 has done has changed my mind. I think she is town. I do think putting her as "Town" instead of "Town Lean" in my original reads list was jumping the gun a little bit though.
7. Locket - Null, although I just find her posts annoying so far as she has fixated on Punchy a bit too much.
8. Oath2Order - He has not contributed much so far this game, and I actually am getting some red flags from it. I think as town he would be less withholding. I think he is trying to be careful so he is a very slight mafia lean for me right now.
9. PunchyDaHufflepuff - I don't know how to read Punchy, I just find it's posts annoying so I'm going to leave this to people that have more experience playing with it.
10. amazonevan19 - evan is a town lean for me. His explosive post towards me felt very genuine and he seems to have been contributing pretty consistently.
11. Geoni - This is an unfortunate null for me. I am scared of the fact that he is only defending me because he is trying to pocket me, but he also could just be reading me pretty well. Assuming he is still town leaning me and if he were mafia, this would be a hard case of WIFOM.
12. Skarmoury - skarmoury has mostly just put pressure on me, I honestly think it's coming from a newbie town standpoint.
13. PandaDarling - Null. Has defended me but hasn't really posted much.
14. Sheabae - Another null for me. I saw others call them out for trying to push a shawo lynch but I can see this from someone who has no meta to go off of. Why not lynch the person who has contributed least so far and has rubbed most people the wrong way. Slight town lean.
15. tae - I'm not sure yet. I remember playing with tae in the past and not being able to read them very well. I think that others could be right in their suspicions, but I also think it's not enough to go off of yet.
16. glow - Strong town lean. I really don't think glow would have defended me earlier (even if they kinda changed their mind) if they were mafia. Posts don't raise any red flags.
17. Shawo - TBH I think shawo could be town but it's really hard to say. Nothing to go off of. I would really appreciate it if he contributed in any way at all.
18. Mogyay - See above
19. Heyden - I'm bad at reading Heyden, but his posts have given me town vibes so far.
20. Harbour - I like Harbour post's so far, and they are ringing out as a strong town lean for me. I would be interested in a full reads list from her as well.

 

[Damniel]

it’s interesting that your read of mog is actually more of a further read of jacob and barely talks about mog’s posts at all. also you said you reaction tested her and that her reaction was town to you, what changed?

 

[Jacob]

girl why i got 3 quote notifs Im in class anyway yes i dont have hard reads on day 1 i don't think that should be a shocker for anyone to not. I have an exam in 20 minutes ive been studying for but so you guys dont go rampant on lynch train I'll address that I said I "avoid the thread" when I get pressured, which I haven't been

I'll be back after my classes of course but don't expect full wall post reads, I don't think I'll be able to nor do i think its helpful to just BS full reads on everyone day one. I will do what I can tho

 

[EpicGamer12]

it’s interesting that your read of mog is actually more of a further read of jacob and barely talks about mog’s posts at all. also you said you reaction tested her and that her reaction was town to you, what changed?

Just reading Jacob x mog interactions it just seemed the most likely to me. I had not done that until this morning.

 

[Damniel]

girl why i got 3 quote notifs Im in class anyway yes i dont have hard reads on day 1 i don't think that should be a shocker for anyone to not. I have an exam in 20 minutes ive been studying for but so you guys dont go rampant on lynch train I'll address that I said I "avoid the thread" when I get pressured, which I haven't been

I'll be back after my classes of course but don't expect full wall post reads, I don't think I'll be able to nor do i think its helpful to just BS full reads on everyone day one. I will do what I can tho

i’m not expecting for you to make a real read list, but you haven’t commented on really anything substantial in the game. my problem with you is that you’re not engaging with the game, but not that you’re posting full reads (i’m not)

 

[EpicGamer12]

i’m not expecting for you to make a real read list, but you haven’t commented on really anything substantial in the game. my problem with you is that you’re not engaging with the game, but not that you’re posting full reads (i’m not)

Personally I think at this point a full reads list is warranted, but obviously his exam is a good excuse for the time being lol

 

[DinoTown]

I'll do a reads list of people who I'm fairly confident with of my opinion right now. I'm not sure on a lot of people because a lot of stuff still seems to be based on meta, etc, which I, of course, have no experience with and can't really hold an opinion on.

1. Damniel - as I explained earlier, voting first if a risky move that would draw way too much attention to a maf from the off. Town lean.

2. Trundle - Trundle just seems... off to me. From my point of view, I see a player who is experienced and manages to just not read their role PM? I... don't see it. Scum lean.

3. Jacob - I've not seen a lot from them that I feel can be commented on as a newbie, but general vibes are... meh. Saying just now that

i dont have hard reads on day 1

is a bit weird when other players have been able to come up with reads lists with ease. Trundle also requested one from me when I don't feel as if I'm in a place to make one, so clearly having a reads list sorted is a thing that people do, even on day 1, even when there's not much to go from, so saying that you don't have one is a bit hmm to me. IDK if it's hmm enough for a scum learned, but it's hmm. Again though, this is what I see as a newbie who does not know people's metas.

4. Emolga59 - Another newbie I believe, not been as active as me I don't think. I don't think this means anything bad. They might be much like me and not feeling like they can contribute when a large portion of ideas comes from previous games, waiting until there's more from this game before they contribute significantly. Maybe a tiny town lean? Maybe null? IDK.

5. DinoTown - hard scumread, clearly.

6. f11 - I'm not sure I've seen enough to be able to lean either way here. I need more to go off of than others as a newbie who can't be all "this person said 'hi.' without a capital letter, that matches their town meta" lol.

7. Locket - same as above.

8. Oath2Order - same as above. I spend ages going looking for a certain post only to realise it was a different person and I was getting mixed up. I'm not used to names yet. Sue me, ig.

9. PunchyDaHufflepuff - I'm not sure. I've seen this name thrown around a lot but without anything I can sink my teeth into as viable odd/interesting posts that can really give hints without need for meta. Maybe scumlean just because I've been the name so much and clearly something's going on for them to be a such a big point of interest.

10. amazonevan19 - this is who I managed to mix up with Oath2Order, the post I was looking for was their reads list about me.

5. DinoTown – asking a lot of questions, seems to be trying his best to navigate a lot of unfamiliar territory and terminology. I do find it interesting that Trundle chose him as a better newbie over Emolga, could be indicative of a mafia coaching relationship (ie Trundle coaching Dino to act clueless), but that’s too reachy a conclusion to come to atm. For now I will slight townlean him because he seems genuine, but do be aware of him as we keep going.

This is one of the only posts I've seen where someone actively points out the 'what if the newbie act is a sham' which is a good point to make, even if it is 'reachy'. Obvs not saying it is the case here, but just wanting to say that this dude here has the cogs turning and is thinking about possibilities of what is going on behind the scenes. I don't think a maf would be the only one to stand up and make a claim like this. I sure know it's never a maf when it happens in Madness because it's usually me and I've never been maf in Madness so townlean I think for now.

11. Geoni - Not entirely sure I've seen enough to really get stuck in with analysis but I get good vibes from their posts. Seems invested and interested when around. Townlean.

12. Skarmoury - I'm not sure if this person is a newbie or not since Trundle specifically pitted me and Emolga against each other for the 'better newbie' place, but if they are, then my answer is the same as Emolga - probably waiting for the game to get going more because anything significant will come from them, maybe slight townlean.

13. PandaDarling - put three relatively new people in their RQS scum team as what seems to be a reaction test. Don't really think it worked, but hey, I'm here now making this massive list so you got what you wanted in the end. Null for now though.

14. Sheabae - Are they a newbie or no? Same message as Skarmoury, except less townlean vibes from them. Maybe null. Maybe like 0.005% scumlean, simply going off of 'I read that post and I didn't like the way it sounded'.

15. tae - Still waiting for the nitty gritty here. Maybe null. No real stuff to make me feel either way.

16. glow - didn't someone target glow a lil because they didn't do the RQS? Not entirely sure that was fair, it's not like they were stated to be mandatory or anything. I'm not entirely sure what doing the RQS/not doing the RQS means for peeps. Maybe some more experienced can give me some insight and I can form a better opinion.

17. Shawo - not really sure. They seemed pretty present at the start of D1 but sort of trailed off from there. I've yet to see them react to much of the reads lists and other stuff going on around now so I'm not sure where I can place them yet. Null.

18. Mogyay - same as above.

19. Heyden - not sure I've seen enough to be confident either way. Hopefully they (and everyone else who I want more from) will contribute at least a lil before the day is over.

20. Harbour - I know for a fact that this person is a least a lil bit newbie. I'm not sure. Thinking about who's newbie and who's not just makes me wonder why Trundle made it me vs Emolga as 'better newbie' when Emolga and me weren't the only choices. I'm getting distracted. I'll just null for now.

 

[EpicGamer12]

20. Harbour - I know for a fact that this person is a least a lil bit newbie. I'm not sure. Thinking about who's newbie and who's not just makes me wonder why Trundle made it me vs Emolga as 'better newbie' when Emolga and me weren't the only choices. I'm getting distracted. I'll just null for now.

You guys were right beside each other on the player list. I definitely didn't have it sorted out who was who yet. Not really relevant regardless though.

 

[Geoni]

Dan I think you should get over yourself if you think I need to suck up to you to earn towncred, get less paranoid and actually read the content and things I'm pointing out? You and another person are saying my initial reads are forced and don't explain why from what I see. As a result it feels a bit disenfranchising which is annoying and not helpful. If you have a problem with me being conflicted about my reads we have a long road ahead of ourselves, but that's just something that comes with time. The stance you take on day 1 and the wagons you form affect the way the rest of the game plays out. That being said, Trundle should be a wagon here but I feel like not enough people are really going into people like Heyden, tae, Jacob, and even shaebae.

I understand school can get intense but it's frustrating that this is what seems to excuse him here when my very problem with Heyden is his lack of reads and his most recent content is some odd discussion about the way the quicktopic is. Heyden and Jacob don't seem teamed because that would be some bizarre theater if they were. The initial feelings Heyden shared about Punchy feel mindmeldy in that it's not necessarily AI that Punchy entered the way he did because it's either an excuse or minor grandstanding but given the current ethos on Punchy at the time is was potentially stated to go either way on him depending on how other people's reads developed, I feel like Heyden goes more in depth even on day 1 when he has his eyes set on someone and exams could very well be affecting that but you just have to take IRL business as NAI.

I'll have to dig into Trundle's more recent posts a little more but at first glance they feel solid aside from the mog stuff that I'm like '???' about because of my silly worldbuilding with mog and Evan still has a point that there's team equity in Trundle x Jacob despite the casing he's just done but like...the efforts are feeling genuine here.

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2020

A lot of nulls in DinoTown's list gives me the impression that he's towny in that making a lot of these people null comes from a place of uncertainty and lack of confidence rather than for the sake of keeping them open as a sus option.

 

[Damniel]

Dan I think you should get over yourself if you think I need to suck up to you to earn towncred, get less paranoid and actually read the content and things I'm pointing out? You and another person are saying my initial reads are forced and don't explain why from what I see. As a result it feels a bit disenfranchising which is annoying and not helpful. If you have a problem with me being conflicted about my reads we have a long road ahead of ourselves, but that's just something that comes with time. The stance you take on day 1 and the wagons you form affect the way the rest of the game plays out. That being said, Trundle should be a wagon here but I feel like not enough people are really going into people like Heyden, tae, Jacob, and even shaebae.

how am i even being paranoid? yes i mention that i think you’re pocketing me but if you read my response to your reads you would actually see i’m mainly scum reading you for your lack of a strong stance and confusing read/case on trundle. you don’t even reply to my critique of your weak reads and unoriginal ISO on tae and pin it on paranoia. evan strongly town reads me but i’m not scumreading him for that. your first reads posts was forced as, like i commented on before, it calls out players who you think are purposefully inactive when it was only like 6 hours into the game. your first big reads post was just fluff and the only substantial thing from it was your town read on trundle. i dont need to agree with your reads and i don’t think doubting them is being unhelpful. so yes this will be long road