How do you feel about making friends with opposing or different beliefs?

[tiffanistarr]

personally I think it hinges on experiences and interactions. I mean I could say the same about myself and my religion or other religions. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people on the forums make unfair judgements or opinions about a group of people because of their own bad experience. Sometimes it is called out, sometimes it isn't Sometimes there is an apology and sometimes there isn't.

The more personal positive experiences and interactions between people the better. Sure book reading helps and is important.

No, I'm not talking about education as in books i'm talking first hand education you see in media all over in today's society. Like in America we now have tv commercials with gay couples, tv shows with tons of gays and poc, trans people are getting more and more representation, poc are in more places in the media we consume than ever before. Yet there is still a LARGE amount of bigots still disgusted by people different than them. So is that not enough to normalize it for them? They need to see it in person? Then that becomes a THEM problem. You have to put yourself out there to learn those things if it's not something you're used to. And i'm sorry but someone's skin color isn't something that other people need to get used to, it's skin FFS that's just ridiculous. It comes from a place of hate and if you're that hateful of a person you can actually look down on someone because of the color of their skin then you probably aren't going to be putting yourself in a situation to learn.

 

[daringred_]

There is nothing wrong with pride in its concept.
But when you have people at pride walking people like dogs... I mean really? You expect a homophobe to see that and understand we are normal people? Like really?

i don't agree with exposing other, non-consenting people to your kinks like that, but a) they still currently have the right to do so, i believe, b) kinks are not equal to being LGBT+, and c) it's almost definitely a minority of people doing such things. regardless, if that's the small aspect you choose to focus on, that's still your problem and doesn't automatically make pride in general some sort of kink showcase for inappropriate sexual acts and debauchery. also, are we just going to ignore the fact that cishets actively practice said kinks and do the same sort of things in public? if a homophobe sees gay people doing it and thinks, "i'm right, gay people really are creepy freaks" but then doesn't think that if they see cishets doing the exact same thing, they're just a hypocrite looking for an excuse to be homophobic. at that point, it's got nothing to do with the kink making homophobes think LGBT+ people are abnormal, it's homophobes using the kink as a smokescreen to express their homophobic views.

 

[MiniPocketWorld]

This is purely personal experience of others (not talking about me) but when it comes to media and stuff, people can often see inclusion as agenda pushing and not something to learn from.

Just seeing it on TV or in books is nothing compared to knowing someone in real life you have bonds with.

Like, my mum used to make homophobic jokes all the time. I tried to kill myself. When I was in hospital, (its when she found out i was gay) she fully accepted me and never made a homophobic comment again.

She has been nothing but accepting and supportive since.

yeah people often do see it that way.

Plus you have examples such as
Well this _religious label here_ did this said that -that hurt others-, so I think they are all _insert negative whatever_.
Well my _insert family member title here_ did -whatever actions that hurt others- and -came out as whatever- and destroyed this family so I think people like them are all _insert whatever negative_.

I mean these are perspectives and experiences of hurt people that fuel negative judgements, reactions, and stereotypes. Especially later seeing it in the media on top of it all. Those people who are already hurt and feeling vulnerable are going to feel more attacked until they work through their hurt and grief in a positive manner. And if that was their only encounter of someone with whatever label, they are going to be in a bubble for a bit unless they encounter positive encounters in the future some way/ some how. Just how many people think and operate.

 

[Moritz]

i don't agree with exposing other, non-consenting people to your kinks like that, but a) they still currently have the right to do so, i believe, b) kinks are not equal to being LGBT+, and c) it's almost definitely a minority of people doing such things. regardless, if that's the small aspect you choose to focus on, that's still your problem and doesn't automatically make pride in general some sort of kink showcase for inappropriate sexual acts and debauchery. also, are we just going to ignore the fact that cishets actively practice said kinks and do the same sort of things in public? if a homophobe sees gay people doing it and thinks, "i'm right, gay people really are creepy freaks" but then doesn't think that if they see cishets doing the exact same thing, they're just a hypocrite looking for an excuse to be homophobic. at that point, it's got nothing to do with the kink making homophobes think LGBT+ people are abnormal, it's homophobes using the kink as a smokescreen to express their homophobic views.

I know personally if I see anyone doing it, I think theyre weirdos.
So if I saw it at pride, and it being supported by pride, I would connect the 2. And I do.

I would fully support pride if it dropped all sexual stuff and just focused on unity.

But until it does, I can't use it as an example of something people should see to not be homophobic. It's an example of something to avoid

 

[tiffanistarr]

i don't agree with exposing other, non-consenting people to your kinks like that, but a) they still currently have the right to do so, i believe, b) kinks are not equal to being LGBT+, and c) it's almost definitely a minority of people doing such things. regardless, if that's the small aspect you choose to focus on, that's still your problem and doesn't automatically make pride in general some sort of kink showcase for inappropriate sexual acts and debauchery. also, are we just going to ignore the fact that cishets actively practice said kinks and do the same sort of things in public? if a homophobe sees gay people doing it and thinks, "i'm right, gay people really are creepy freaks" but then doesn't think that if they see cishets doing the exact same thing, they're just a hypocrite looking for an excuse to be homophobic. at that point, it's got nothing to do with the kink making homophobes think LGBT+ people are abnormal, it's homophobes using the kink as a smokescreen to express their homophobic views.

I was going to say, I've seen way more straight couples doing that stuff then I have seen at any pride event. I can't say I've been to a lot of Pride parades but i've been to a lot of other things and have seen that stuff there.

 

[Moritz]

yeah people often do see it that way.

Plus you have examples such as
Well this _religious label here_ did this said that -that hurt others-, so I think they are all _insert negative whatever_.
Well my _insert family member title here_ did -whatever actions that hurt others- and -came out as whatever- and destroyed this family so I think people like them are all _insert whatever negative_.

I mean these are perspectives and experiences of hurt people that fuel negative judgements, reactions, and stereotypes. Especially later seeing it in the media on top of it all. Those people who are already hurt and feeling vulnerable are going to feel more attacked until they work through their hurt and grief in a positive manner. And if that was their only encounter of someone with whatever label, they are going to be in a bubble for a bit unless they encounter positive encounters in the future some way/ some how. Just how many people think and operate.

I completely agree that we are all in bubbles.
We will never know how anyone else see the world.

But we can either let people into our bubbles or put up spikes to pop those who come near us.

Society needs less spikes.

I try my best to view the world from as many view points as I can but I find with the left it's just so hard to.

For example, I'm a huge fan of Blaire White. She's a trans right wing youtuber. She gets so many death threats from trans people saying how they "want to kill him"

 

[Shawna]

It all comes down to whether these people are willing to accept people who have opposing beliefs. If they can respect others opinions/beliefs, I think it can be done. Sadly, there are so many friendships that end due to these two people having beliefs that clash with the other's.

I remember I used to be quite close with someone who has opposing views on abortion from me. I am pro-choice, she is pro-life. But we didn't let that affect us in the slightest. Unfortunately, we are not as close anymore. But this is not because of our opposing views on abortion. This is because we just drifted into different interests/fandoms. Our main fandom/franchise used to be Disney's Cars/Planes, but as of now, mine is Papa Louie and hers I believe is Hetalia.

If it is something like...for example, an LGBT person and a person who is against LGBT, it gets more complicated. Having a "friend" who is against something that makes you who you are is very unsettling.

 

[MiniPocketWorld]

No, I'm not talking about education as in books i'm talking first hand education you see in media all over in today's society. Like in America we now have tv commercials with gay couples, tv shows with tons of gays and poc, trans people are getting more and more representation, poc are in more places in the media we consume than ever before. Yet there is still a LARGE amount of bigots still disgusted by people different than them. So is that not enough to normalize it for them? They need to see it in person? Then that becomes a THEM problem. You have to put yourself out there to learn those things if it's not something you're used to. And i'm sorry but someone's skin color isn't something that other people need to get used to, it's skin FFS that's just ridiculous. It comes from a place of hate and if you're that hateful of a person you can actually look down on someone because of the color of their skin then you probably aren't going to be putting yourself in a situation to learn.

I'm sorry I don't consider media as first hand education. I consider interactions as first hand education and all other education from people education on platforms such as articles or media stories (non-fiction) as second hand education. Third hand would be one over. Someone not from whatever group educating and spreading awareness.
Skin color is different than race, but at the end of the day, my point is that there are people who believe that if you are a certain race (or skin color if you prefer that) that they are less evolved. And yeah they probably aren't going to go out and learn even thought there are tons of information out. They would have to be "faced" with how they are in error to recognize otherwise in some sort of encounter or interaction. Especially if they are in some sort of community or social bubble they were raised in or placed themselves in at some point.

 

[Moritz]

It all comes down to whether these people are willing to accept people who have opposing beliefs. If they can respect others opinions/beliefs, I think it can be done. Sadly, there are so many friendships that end due to these two people having beliefs that clash with the other's.

I remember I used to be quite close with someone who has opposing views on abortion from me. I am pro-choice, she is pro-life. But we didn't let that affect us in the slightest. Unfortunately, we are not as close anymore. But this is not because of our opposing views on abortion. This is because we just drifted into different interests/fandoms. Our main fandom/franchise used to be Disney's Cars/Planes, but as of now, mine is Papa Louie and hers I believe is Hetalia.

If it is something like...for example, an LGBT person and a person who is against LGBT, it gets more complicated. Having a "friend" who is against something that makes you who you are is very unsettling.

To me this is the biggest thing that matters.
Do they accept you?

Even if you go against their beliefs, do they accept you? If so, I think the same should be given back to them.

But if they won't, then it's them who is not a friend. It's not you being the problem.

 

[daringred_]

I know personally if I see anyone doing it, I think theyre weirdos.
So if I saw it at pride, and it being supported by pride, I would connect the 2. And I do.

I would fully support pride if it dropped all sexual stuff and just focused on unity.

But until it does, I can't use it as an example of something people should see to not be homophobic. It's an example of something to avoid

then that's your problem. not the community's and not pride's. as is you intrinsically linking kink and LGBT+ identities. if you think pride is embarrassing, inherently sexual, some sort of kink showcase and/or something to be avoided on the off-chance you might see a same-sex couple practicing pet-play or some other kink (which you run the risk of seeing literally anywhere and more often with a cishet couple) then fine, that's on you, but it's not an excuse for people to be homophobic or a reason they can use to justify their bigotry.

 

[Moritz]

then that's your problem. not the community's and not pride's. as is you intrinsically linking kink and LGBT+ identities. if you think pride is embarrassing, inherently sexual, some sort of kink showcase and/or something to be avoided on the off-chance you might see a same-sex couple practicing pet-play or some other kink (which you run the risk of seeing literally anywhere and more often with a cishet couple) then fine, that's on you, but it's not an excuse for people to be homophobic or a reason they can use to justify their bigotry.

I dont disagree as such
That wasn't my point.

My point was seeing that will not make someone supportive

 

[daringred_]

I dont disagree as such
That wasn't my point.

My point was seeing that will not make someone supportive

and i never said seeing people engaging in kink (which is a whole other separate thing that's also practiced by cishet couples, making it irrelevant here) should. i said that about pride, a month/event/occasion about identity, support, celebration and community. if people are going to ignore all the good that comes out of it and only focus on the one or two people in attendance who publicly practice their kink (which, again, cishet couples also do) as an excuse to throw around their homophobia, that is on them and them alone.

 

[N e s s]

I feel like I’ve seen this thread every several months and every time it’s been made to start an argument

anyway to stay on “topic” yes I have friend of opposing view point.

 

[King koopa]

I don't know if I want to be here anymore because there's a fight going on.

I dont disagree as such
That wasn't my point.

My point was seeing that will not make someone supportive

And I hate to be rude since you're already handling an argument but didn't you say you were leaving the thread? Why are you still here?

 

[daringred_]

I don't know if I want to be here anymore because there's a fight going on.

And I hate to be rude since you're already handling an argument but didn't you say you were leaving the thread? Why are you still here?

if it makes you feel more comfortable, i don't plan to engage in that discussion anymore.

 

[Moritz]

I don't know if I want to be here anymore because there's a fight going on.

And I hate to be rude since you're already handling an argument but didn't you say you were leaving the thread? Why are you still here?

I did but because I got a reply since, I decided my replies would be more reserved than non existent

 

[Chris]

This is purely personal experience of others (not talking about me) but when it comes to media and stuff, people can often see inclusion as agenda pushing and not something to learn from.

Just seeing it on TV or in books is nothing compared to knowing someone in real life you have bonds with.

Like, my mum used to make homophobic jokes all the time. I tried to kill myself. When I was in hospital, (its when she found out i was gay) she fully accepted me and never made a homophobic comment again.

She has been nothing but accepting and supportive since.

Love beats hate every time

I'm sorry to hear that you have had such a hard time in the past, but also glad to hear that your mother is now supportive of you. I think you've raised a key point that direct exposure is an important factor in normalising these things for many people. It's much easier to understand something you're unfamiliar with, or that contradicts the values you were raised with, when it impacts an ordinary person in your everyday life.

I live in the identity-crisis-inducing crosshairs of being both religious and LGBT. I go to church every Sunday and LGBT meetings every other Tuesday. I do my best to try and set a good example in both.


While not really a topic for this thread, or The Bell Tree in general, the BDSM subculture has a long history in supporting the LGBT rights movement. I won't provide any links, but it is worth reading into if you do not understand the association. Whether or not it has a place in LGBT pride parades remains a point of contention for many. However this isn't the place for that debate.

 

[Moritz]

I'm sorry to hear that you have had such a hard time in the past, but also glad to hear that your mother is now supportive of you. I think you've raised a key point that direct exposure is an important factor in normalising these things for many people. It's much easier to understand something you're unfamiliar with, or that contradicts the values you were raised with, when it

Thank you
I honestly did not think I would live to see the next day so when I got rushed to hospital and spent the next 2 weeks there.. it really took me by surprise.

I'm glad I lived at this point in my life but at the time... wow it sucked.

While not really a topic for this thread, or The Bell Tree in general, the BDSM subculture has a long history in supporting the LGBT rights movement. I won't provide any links, but it is worth reading into if you do not understand the association. Whether or not it has a place in LGBT pride parades remains a point of contention for many. However this isn't the place for that debate.

I dont want to take away from their place at all.
I'm a kinky SOB myself to the point where if you took away that kinda stuff, I guess I'm asexual.

But I do think its not the best way to make people think lgbt are normal people.

Bedroom stuff is best kept in the bedroom and anything else just goes to show we are normal people.

Even if we aren't normal because we're a man and love makeup. So many women do and will get it.

There is so much about us that isn't sex that people can get and understand

I feel sex at pride devalues us as a whole

 

[Xara]

politics and beliefs truthfully aren’t something that i think about when making friends but personally, i could never remain friends with someone who is against BLM, LGBTQ+, abortion, etc. if you think that someone isn’t deserving of basic human rights just because of their gender, sexuality, ethnicity, skin colour, etc, you absolutely are not someone that i need or want in my life.

 

[sleepydreepy]

I can be friends with people who are a different religion than me (one of my best friends is Unitarian universalist and I am a Christian), but if someone is racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. then no, I could not be friends with them because I believe those are basic human rights and not just a "social issue," if that makes sense. I am also a WOC and member of the LGBTQ+ community so having someone treat me differently because of that is something that I could not tolerate personally.