Unisex bathrooms

[LethalLulu]

men perv on women everyday in broad daylight, they don't have to walk into a bathroom when it's already easy

As a cosplayer, I can vouch for this. (I generally wear a tee-shirt and jeans casually, so I don't get weird/creepy comments about me)

Luckily, I haven't had that many issues because I live in an exTREMELY liberal area.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

Calm down man, I did read it. It's so much different from now though, they're demanding attetion and to be treated like a special snowflake. I also don't think it worked quite the same. What nonbinary people want is to be special. Last cis-person I saw on tumblr, well, I can't even remember. It's almost a trend nowadays to be anythng other then cis. It's just a cry for attention or the need to feel special. Most of them don't even want to change, they just want they/them (or ze/zir etc) pronouns, but not actually change their bodies, which also does not make them trans, since they're not even transitioning.. which they ofcourse claim to be. Did you know, on trans day of visibility, the day to raise awareness for transgender people, people who go trough a lot of ****, who face struggles about their body every day, who kill themselves, and so on, was taken over by thousands of nonbinary people, who are 100% okay with showing off their genitals on their tumblr, calling themselves cute little princesses (while claiming to be nonbinary)? It just annoys me so much. They should just go to the disabled space toilets.

You're doing quite a lot of talking about what non binaries want for somebody who isn't non binary.

Maybe before trying to condemn all non binaries you should do a little research yourself as to what they're actually like instead of making assumptions based off of a few troll blogs and strawmen.

 

[Wolfycheeks]

You're doing quite a lot of talking about what non binaries want for somebody who isn't non binary.

Maybe before trying to condemn all non binaries you should do a little research yourself as to what they're actually like instead of making assumptions based off of a few troll blogs and strawmen.

You think i'm not doing research or have zero experience with them, but I do, as I said, 90% of tumblr is nonbinary right now, and I have talked to enough in real life too, most of my friends from art school even suddenly became non binary.


Also in the source you posted:
"The Mapuche communities see machi practice as both sacred and gender deviant, and machi themselves have reacted to Chilean national and Mapuche prejudices against gender variance by shrouding their shifting gender identities and sexualities in silence."

Two-spirit sounds way more like transgender then nonbinary though. Also a term made up in 1990.. not really back to the pyramids.

 

[leftTBT]

Gosh, can we talk about anything here without fighting? ._.

 

[LethalLulu]

Calm down man, I did read it. It's so much different from now though, they're demanding attetion and to be treated like a special snowflake. I also don't think it worked quite the same. What nonbinary people want is to be special. Last cis-person I saw on tumblr, well, I can't even remember. It's almost a trend nowadays to be anythng other then cis. It's just a cry for attention or the need to feel special. Most of them don't even want to change, they just want they/them (or ze/zir etc) pronouns, but not actually change their bodies, which also does not make them trans, since they're not even transitioning.. which they ofcourse claim to be. Did you know, on trans day of visibility, the day to raise awareness for transgender people, people who go trough a lot of ****, who face struggles about their body every day, who kill themselves, and so on, was taken over by thousands of nonbinary people, who are 100% okay with showing off their genitals on their tumblr, calling themselves cute little princesses (while claiming to be nonbinary)? It just annoys me so much. They should just go to the disabled space toilets.

I'm agendered, and I do get extremely depressed/suicidal when I worry about my gender too much...
I just don't want anyone to think of me as my gender...that's why I'll go by male or female pronouns. Like, I literally don't care, as long as I know you're referring to me. I've never associated with being a female, but I don't quite feel male. Does that mean I'm not real? Maybe this all is just a simulation kek.

 

[Wolfycheeks]

I'm agendered, and I do get extremely depressed/suicidal when I worry about my gender too much...
I just don't want anyone to think of me as my gender...that's why I'll go by male or female pronouns. Like, I literally don't care, as long as I know you're referring to me. I've never associated with being a female, but I don't quite feel male. Does that mean I'm not real? Maybe this all is just a simulation kek.

Well no, it doesn't mean you're not real, I am wondering why you feel upset when people see you as a female though? I think you will eventually find peace with it.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

You think i'm not doing research or have zero experience with them, but I do, as I said, 90% of tumblr is nonbinary right now, and I have talked to enough in real life too, most of my friends from art school even suddenly became non binary.


Also in the source you posted:
"The Mapuche communities see machi practice as both sacred and gender deviant, and machi themselves have reacted to Chilean national and Mapuche prejudices against gender variance by shrouding their shifting gender identities and sexualities in silence."

Two-spirit sounds way more like transgender then nonbinary though. Also a term made up in 1990.. not really back to the pyramids.

Read again. The term was adopted in 1990, but it's a concept in native american culture that's been around for much much longer.


http://www.firstpeople.us/articles/the-two-spirit-people-of-indigenous-north-americans.html


This article even mentions

"The most common term to define such person today is to refer to them as 'two-spirit' people, but in the past feminine males were sometimes referred to as 'berdache' by early French explorerers in North America."

Which effectively dates nonbinary genders in native american culture AT LEAST back to the 14th and 15th centuries.


So yeah, maybe not pyramids old, but definitely ancient.

 

[Zane]

Also a term made up in 1990.. not really back to the pyramids.

a concept can exist before the term is invented lol

 

[LyssaAutumn]

Hi Zephyr, just checked out these links and they all seem to be about transgender people, or shamans that need to assume an opposite gender role during rituals, rather than non-binary or agender people in prehistory. you kind of prove the point that wiki is full of bad sources.

 

[LethalLulu]

Well no, it doesn't mean you're not real, I am wondering why you feel upset when people see you as a female though? I think you will eventually find peace with it.

Because I don't associate myself with having a gender. At all. A lot of it is because deep down I wish gender didn't exist at all, but that's a Utopia for me. I see myself as an individual, a person, not a female. I actually get really uncomfortable when people refer to me directly by my gender like going "right this way, ladies". Like, I'm not a lady. I usually don't say anything unless I know I'll be seeing this person again. Everyone's been great about it.

 

[Wolfycheeks]

Because I don't associate myself with having a gender. At all. A lot of it is because deep down I wish gender didn't exist at all, but that's a Utopia for me. I see myself as an individual, a person, not a female. I actually get really uncomfortable when people refer to me directly by my gender like going "right this way, ladies". Like, I'm not a lady. I usually don't say anything unless I know I'll be seeing this person again. Everyone's been great about it.

Oh, I see, that must be very depressing.. Well, you shouldn't be upset by it, people aren't gonna change to any other pronouns, and they just call you that because of what's in your pants, it doesn't mean you're not an individual! It probably doesn't help, I just mean that you're still a special individual regardless of what pronouns are being used for you.. if that makes sense?

 

[seliph]

So yeah, maybe not pyramids old, but definitely ancient.

But wait, there's more.

I think you will eventually find peace with it.

That is such a rude and intrusive thing to say to anyone who is trans or non-binary, you might wanna not do that.

 

[LyssaAutumn]

But wait, there's more.



That is such a rude and intrusive thing to say to anyone who is trans or non-binary, you might wanna not do that.

i dont see the rudeness or offensiveness...the coming to peace?

 

[LethalLulu]

Oh, I see, that must be very depressing.. Well, you shouldn't be upset by it, people aren't gonna change to any other pronouns, and they just call you that because of what's in your pants, it doesn't mean you're not an individual! It probably doesn't help, I just mean that you're still a special individual regardless of what pronouns are being used for you.. if that makes sense?

No
No
No
No
You refer to someone by what they say you should refer to them, not what's in their pants. Like what is this, when people first meet each other they rip off their pants+ underwear instead of shaking hands?

That's extremely disrespectful and ignorant to say.

- - - Post Merge - - -

i dont see the rudeness or offensiveness...the coming to peace?

I actually was extremely offended by it.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

Hi Zephyr, just checked out these links and they all seem to be about transgender people, or shamans that need to assume an opposite gender role during rituals, rather than non-binary or agender people in prehistory. you kind of prove the point that wiki is full of bad sources.

I honestly pulled random sources off of the bottom of the page which was lazy of me, but in a thread like this you kind of have to be quick otherwise your point is going to get buried. Some of the sources might be a bit bad but the proper reading will give you the information you need. This is honestly a result of me trying to prove "wikipedia isn't awful" while being rushed.


http://www.willsworld.org/twospiritq-a.html

This article should give a better idea of what it's about.

TL;DR- Two-spirit is a lot closer to Bigender (which is potentially nonbinary) than Transmen or Transwomen

 

[seliph]

i dont see the rudeness or offensiveness...the coming to peace?

The fact that he's saying that in terms of someone's sex is the rude part. That's what people who try to "change" trans (and non-binary) people say to them to make them "realize they were always the gender they were assigned at birth" and that's why it shouldn't be said.

 

[Wolfycheeks]

No
No
No
No
You refer to someone by what they say you should refer to them, not what's in their pants. Like what is this, when people first meet each other they rip off their pants+ underwear instead of shaking hands?

That's extremely disrespectful and ignorant to say.

So you just ask every single person on the street you come across what their pronouns are before simply asking for directions or when someone dropped their wallet? 'no idea if thats a man or a woman... 5 years later.. wallet is gone.. gender still not figured out'

and no, when people first meet, girls look like girls, guys look like guys, not always because of their hair or clothes, but voice, facial structures, body. That's how you usually notice.

- - - Post Merge - - -

The fact that he's saying that in terms of someone's sex is the rude part. That's what people who try to "change" trans (and non-binary) people say to them to make them "realize they were always the gender they were assigned at birth" and that's why it shouldn't be said.

I don't mean that at all, do you people always find the tiniest thing to be offended about? I mean you will come to peace with it, with their gender, with their feelings, not with being the gender they were born as.

 

[Stil]

I think we should just have lines of private bathrooms in public places.
I don't like the thought of anybody listening to me take a dump.

 

[LyssaAutumn]

wow thats a terrible thing to do Zephyr especially when you use such patronizing language at the same time as bad sources. you expected no one to read them maybe?

 

[LethalLulu]

So you just ask every single person on the street you come across what their pronouns are before simply asking for directions or when someone dropped their wallet? 'no idea if thats a man or a woman... 5 years later.. wallet is gone.. gender still not figured out'

and no, when people first meet, girls look like girls, guys look like guys, not always because of their hair or clothes, but voice, facial structures, body. That's how you usually notice.

Wtf, no. When you meet someone, like a colleague at work, a classmate at school, or a roommate, etc, someone you'll see MULTIPLE times, you will say your name which can imply your gender. If not, you can correct them if they do misgender you. Do you randomly walk up to people on the street, shake hands and introduce yourself only to ask for directions? No.

Alos wrong. One of my male friends at my last university looked feminine because he had boobs. He was still a guy...
And he introduced himself as James. KINDA proves that he identifies as male.